Hello everyone! I wrote this paper for a theology class, but it was in some ways inspired by discussions on this site. This topic has been debated since the earliest days of Christianity, and if books such as Job are any indication people have been wondering about it for as long as there have been people. It was a blessing to investigate this question, so I hope you will also become intrigued by this topic. I highly encourage reading about it from writers who hold different views, I only present three here.
The Goodness of God
This summer my church had a vacation bible school. Each year the VBS has a different theme: this one was God’s goodness. At our activity stations we sometimes have shouting matches of which crews of kids can yell the loudest: “God is good!” While I have always liked the little phrase that we use as the theme, this one was a favorite. It had a kind of subtle power to it. Affirming God’s goodness gives a feeling of joy and hope. Sadly, many people do not know God’s goodness; some even see Him as the ultimate evil. It is only natural to wonder what exactly it means that God is good and why a good God would allow suffering.
Obviously God’s goodness is one of the foundations of what we believe, but what does it mean that He is good? Goodness has many aspects: righteousness, moral virtue, kindness, grace, honesty, reliability, capability, and worthiness, among others (Dictionary.com, 2019). Let’s take a closer look at how these apply to God. Many psalms praise God for His righteousness, His fair judgements.
“let them sing before the Lord,
for he comes to judge the earth.
He will judge the world in righteousness
and the peoples with equity.” - Psalm 98:9, NIV
Because God is righteous, we know that He takes sin seriously and rewards good. Even when it seems like people are becoming successful through evil actions or being persecuted for doing good, God will make all things right in the end. He has a uniquely perfect understanding of right and wrong because of His moral virtue.
“The law of the Lord is perfect,
refreshing the soul.
The statutes of the Lord are trustworthy,
making wise the simple.
The precepts of the Lord are right,
giving joy to the heart.
The commands of the Lord are radiant,
giving light to the eyes.” - Psalm 19:7-8
Some people see provisions of Old Testament law, such as capital punishment for cursing parents (Exodus 21:17) or the fact that slavery was allowed (Exodus 21:2-11) as evidence that God does not have perfect morality. Most evangelical theologians agree that there are three types of laws: civil, ceremonial, and moral. Ceremonial and civil laws, usually the laws skeptics find objectionable, were meant specifically for Israel during Bible times; they were fulfilled by Jesus in such a way that we can learn from them but are no longer bound to follow them. The moral laws, most famously the Ten Commandments, reflect God’s character especially well and are applicable in any culture (Lindsley, Nov 2013).
God demonstrates kindness and grace to us every day. That believers and unbelievers alike receive the blessings of food, sunshine, community, and many other things is testimony to His character (Acts 14:15-18). The ultimate expression of His grace is Jesus. We do not deserve that God would send His Son, but in love Jesus was sent to us. Jesus chose to suffer and die in our place so that we could have eternal life and forgiveness. Jesus’ life as fully human also proves that God experiences an important part of kindness: empathy. He understands what our life is like because He has lived it, so we can confidently pray to Him about anything. A popular passage expresses God’s grace and kindness wonderfully:
“For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast.” - Ephesians 2:8-9
How do we know God will always be good? The Bible describes Him as honest and reliable. In fact, God, in these verses Jesus and the Holy Spirit, is called the very definition of truth.
“Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” - John 14:6
“But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.” - John 16:13
We know from other passages that God does not lie, keeps His promises (Titus 1:2), and is always the same (Hebrews 13:8).
All of these traits show God’s good character, but to be perfectly good He has to be capable of doing all the good that He intends. There is much scriptural evidence for both the omnipotence (Isaiah 46:9-11, Matthew 19:26) and omniscience (Matthew 6:8, Psalm 139) of God. Psalm 139 describes that God knew every day of David’s life before he was even born and knew David’s prayers before he even spoke.
All of these traits and more make God worthy of our worship. His goodness far surpasses ours. People can have the traits that make up goodness, but not perfectly in the same way God does. That’s why Jesus says “no one is good except God alone.” (Mark 10:18) These truths are important to remember when considering what is often called the problem of evil. There are many approaches that attempt to explain why a world created by a good God would be allowed to contain sin and suffering; but I believe that some have more merit than others. It all depends on how well the explanation matches God’s perfect goodness as revealed in the Bible.
One of the oldest views, embraced by early church theologians such as Augustine, is termed the classic perspective. This teaching is concerned with solving the problem of how evil is even possible if God did not create it. Multiple scripture passages show that God does not directly cause evil.
“When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone” - James 1:13
“This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all.” - 1 John 1:5
If God didn’t create evil, how does it exist? The classic view says that evil is not a thing in itself, but a corruption of something good. An analogy is helpful: evil exists in the same way a hole in a shirt exists, there is no such thing as “pure hole” (with no shirt to put it in) just like there is no such thing as evil existing as a separate, created object (thus God did not create it). Classical theologians believe that Adam’s sin was evil because while he was meant to seek the highest good (God), he instead chose an inferior good (himself) (Cary, 2017).
Molinist theologians have a different focus. They emphasize God’s middle knowledge, His ability to know what His creatures would do in any set of circumstances. God values free choice, so He chose to create the best possible world in which humans can choose whether or not to follow Him. God lays out the circumstances knowing what we will choose, but does not force us to make the choice. Because of His middle knowledge God can have good reasons for permitting evil even when we can’t see those reasons. God sees every effect a tragedy will have on the whole future of humanity. We are in no position to claim He is wrong because our understanding of the future is so limited (Craig, 2017).
In an attempt to understand why evil still exists in this world, it can be tempting to say that God can’t do everything He wants to (this belief is known as process theology. Process theologians believe that God is constantly changing and learning). The belief of open theism also claim that God does not control all evil (Alcorn, 2009). This view suggests that God does not know in advance what choices His creatures will make, though He knows all possibilities. God follows policies He knows will usually lead to good, and if something bad happens as an unforeseen effect He works to bring good from it. One of the main objections that open theists have to views that affirm the omniscience of God is that if He knows how everything will happen and created the circumstances to make it happen that way, humans do not really have free will (Hasker, 2017). Proponents see passages such as 1 Samuel 15:11, where God said He “regretted” making Saul king, as evidence. However, passages describing God’s regret can be understood in the sense that He does not enjoy what must happen, even though He allowed it for the purpose of greater future good (Alcorn, 2009). Open theism requires a non-literal interpretation of Bible passages such as these:
“Who can fathom the Spirit[d] of the Lord,
or instruct the Lord as his counselor?
Whom did the Lord consult to enlighten him,
and who taught him the right way?
Who was it that taught him knowledge,
or showed him the path of understanding?” - Isaiah 40:13-14
“Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.” - Hebrews 4:13
These are only three of the many explanations of why a good God would allow evil. I would like to point out a few things that are held in common. It is known that God does not enjoy evil or suffering. He hears the prayers of people who suffer, for example, He responded to the Israelites’ call for help in Egypt.
“The Lord said, “I have indeed seen the misery of my people in Egypt. I have heard them crying out because of their slave drivers, and I am concerned about their suffering. So I have come down to rescue them from the hand of the Egyptians” - Exodus 3:7-8a
We also know that God brings good out of bad situations. He can use suffering to build character and lead us to know His love more deeply (Romans 5:3-5). Even when it seems pointless, God can still use it for His glory. Perspectives differ on whether or not God intentionally allows specific evils (the issue here is over suffering that seems pointless), but I tend to believe that each thing that happens has been specifically permitted. I agree with the statement that what our minds see and understand about the universe is vastly less than what God understands, so much so that we have no grounds to label something as “pointless” (Wykstra, 2017). When His disciples asked why a certain man had been born blind, Jesus said before healing him:
“Neither this man nor his parents sinned,” said Jesus, “but this happened so that the works of God might be displayed in him.” - John 9:3
Finally, we all have hope because God will redeem the world and make it free from evil.
“I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. For the creation waits in eager expectation for the children of God to be revealed. For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the freedom and glory of the children of God.”
- Romans 8:18-21
Even now God is revealing His redemptive love to us in Jesus. If we did not need Jesus to die for us and rise from the dead, we would not have seen the depths of God’s love for us so clearly. This, I believe, is the highest good and gives God the glory He deserves.
Understanding God’s goodness is one of the most joyful things about faith. It equips us to think about important questions surrounding the existence of evil in the world. The many views on this topic are different in their focuses and interpretation of God’s desires or abilities, but they agree on important things: God cares for us, brings good out of bad, and will redeem the world in the end. Remember… “God is good!”
References
Alcorn, Randy. (2009). If God is good: Faith in the midst of suffering and evil. New York, NY:
WaterBrook Multnomah
Cary, Phillip. (2017). A classic view. In C. Meister & J.K. Dew (Eds.), God and the problem of
evil: Five views (pp. 13-36). Downer Grove, Ill: InterVarsity Press
Craig, William L. (2017). A molinist view. In C. Meister & J.K. Dew (Eds.), God and the
problem of evil: Five views (pp. 37-56). Downer Grove, Ill: InterVarsity Press
Dictionary.com. (2019). Good: Definition of good. Retrieved from
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/good
Hasker, William. (2017). An open theist view. In C. Meister & J.K. Dew (Eds.), God and the
problem of evil: Five views (pp. 57-76). Downer Grove, Ill: InterVarsity Press
Lindsley, Art. (Nov 9, 2013). Moral law and the Ten Commandments. Retrieved from
https://tifwe.org/resource/moral-law-and-the-ten-commandments/
Oord, Thomas J. (2017). An essential kenosis view. In C. Meister & J.K. Dew (Eds.), God and
the problem of evil: Five views (pp. 77-98). Downer Grove, Ill: InterVarsity Press
Wykstra, Stephen. (2017). A skeptical theist view. In C. Meister & J.K. Dew (Eds.), God and the
problem of evil: Five views (pp. 99-130). Downer Grove, Ill: InterVarsity Press
Good evening windar12q! I am aware that there are indeed several interpretations of the problem of evil. I was wondering: How does your understanding of the problem related to your statements on previous forum pages that evil was necessary to know good?
As for the claim that evil comes from God, I found an article that has a very helpful analogy. https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/confronting-the-problems-of-evil To summarize, God's relationship to our world is like an author's relationship to his story. The author is responsible in a sense for the hardships the characters face, but it would be ridiculous to accuse the author of being a terrible person for writing these hardships into the story. On the contrary, we praise the authors who write these books. Even though the author is the creator of the characters, it is the characters whom we hold responsible for their actions. However, unlike any human writer, God Himself enters our story. God spoke to the prophets, protected His people, punished evil and rewarded good, lived among us as Jesus, died a real death in our place, and fully came back to life.
I would also recommend reading Psalm 139. It is very relevant to understanding the sovereignty of God over all things (and has been an encouragement to me).
Hi windar12q, we will have to agree to disagree
I have said what I have said. It seems to me that we are talking past each other, and it would appear that there is nothing to be gained by either side because of this.
Furthermore, we have strayed a long way from the subject of this forum, "The Goodness of God; The Bible and the Problem of Evil", which I did initially contribute to back on 23rd January 2020.
As much as it is interesting to discuss what we each believe, unfortunately, I do not have much spare time for the to and fro that hasn't really progressed this forum on the goodness of God.
Ultimately, we will all know the whole truth when our spirits leave our bodies and we stand before God.
You would do well to look past the prejudices you hold against God and read the New Testament or to start with, the gospel of John, with an open heart and mind, to understand who Jesus is. You might be surprised what you come to realise.
I wish you all the best, and sincerely hope that you will come to know our Lord and Saviour.
Burrawang
Hi windar12q, I hope that you are well and the winter hasn’t been too severe.
Regarding your last post. Whatever way you wish to look at the problem, (if evolution was true) for evolution to create all the species of life that have ever lived on this planet, a mechanism is absolutely required to write the novel information onto each new creature’s deoxyribonucleic acid (DNA).
To explain what I mean in a little more detail for greater clarity: - the supposed first cell necessarily immediately required the ability to reproduce to pass on its genetic information to the next generation and every generation since then to the present time. This information is written in coded language form on the DNA. As each new species appeared (on the imaginary tree of life in the evolution story), new complex specified information is necessarily required to be written simultaneously onto the DNA of each new species genome; in fact it is a bit of a chicken and egg situation, as the new information recorded onto the DNA needs to be present at the formation of the new species as the ‘blueprint’ for its initial creation so that it can pass on its own genetic information to its descendants.
Now it is well established from the science of information theory that novel complex specified information cannot write itself; it absolutely requires an intelligent author. There is no way around this readily demonstrated scientific fact. So there needs to be a cogent explanation as to how quoting your words the “intelligent energy in the brain of the more vulnerable creatures,” if I understand you correctly, is able to write the novel information on the DNA of each new “evolved” creature or plant. Let’s use some examples to explore this further. There are many threatened species here in Australia, but for our example let’s choose the threatened “Green and Golden Bell Frog” (Litoria aurea). You are therefore saying that when this specie evolved, (came into existence), ‘the energy in the brain of this vulnerable creature’ is the intelligence that wrote all the new coded specified complex information (that makes this frog unique) onto the DNA Hydrogen bridges between the sugar ribose strands at the molecular scale using the nucleotide chemical letters, that have been named cytosine, guanine, adenine and thymine. Furthermore, this same process necessarily must occur at every of the imagined billions of steps along the supposed evolutionary pathway to ever greater complexity culminating with the enormously complex form of life, mankind.
So, what you have not told us is how, using your words, “evolution is engineered by the energy that serves a biological species." What you also need to explain is how the energy is engineered to drive the “evolution”.
Regarding your statement, “I would look more closely at the properties of energy and the laws that govern its pattern, you will find its pattern matches that of evolution. This is something that can be demonstrated, so my challenge to you is, demonstrate your God in the same way.” I understand some of the properties of energy, but I do not see where you have "demonstrated” what you are claiming to be fact. What laws are you referring to, and what is the pattern to which you refer that matches evolution?
It is not sufficient to simply say you have demonstrated your point and expect people to accept it, science doesn’t work that way, a cogent reasoned explanation is needed.
You are correct about one thing, we don’t see clearly, but we will all see clearly when we depart this mortal world; this applies to every man, woman and child that has ever lived.
1 Corinthians 13:12 “For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.”
I see that our worldviews differ considerably. As a consequence the way we each interpret the facts differs, each reflecting his own interpretive framework.
Also, unfortunately you continue to misrepresent the Bible and God; please don’t, as you are talking about your Creator who truly does love you. It is important to understand that we are saved by His grace, not by our own works: -
Ephesians 2:8 “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:” there is nothing that we can do to earn salvation, it is the free gift from God to all of us.
I wish you well and sincerely hope that you reach out with a sincere heart for the truth, God is faithful and true to those that seek Him.
John 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
Revelation 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear My voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with Me.
All the best,
Burrawang
Hi windar12q, with respect I am compelled to point out that many of your assertions are anything but scientific. I have worked in science for about 50 years, indeed I used to analyse soil and rock samples to determine their precise chemical composition using an atomic absorption spectrophotometer (at the University of New South Wales, Kensington, Sydney campus) that was then state of the art technology in the 1970’s and up until last year I have been performing rigorous scientific analysis of habitats, ecosystems and threatened species populations here in Australia, so you could say I am qualified to say that I have more than a fair grasp of the scientific method and what constitutes real science.
I must admit that I do not know precisely what you believe, but from what you have told me in your numerous posts, I think I have a fair idea of the basics. You continually state in various ways that it is energy and quantum entanglement that directs evolution. If I understand you correctly, this would mean that for life to progress from the first cell or cells in the uphill direction necessary towards the wide diversity of species that we see today, it is energy that has been guiding and writing the brilliant design blueprints on the DNA of all creatures and plants.
Now maybe I’m missing something but the last time I looked at energy, it did not display intelligence, lets look at a few examples of energy; when a candle is lit, the chemical energy in the paraffin wax is released as infra-red and light energy but I do not see how it can be seen as intelligent? When I fill up my car with petrol (gas for the Americans), I do not detect any intelligence from the stored chemical energy in the fuel, when I see the sun and feel its heat energy on my skin I do not detect intelligence from that energy itself!
What I do see is the hand of the Creator in all these things. The one and only living God of the Bible is the Creator, He is known as the Logos, the Word, Jesus Christ, the Son, and many more names but they all refer to the one same Creator. It is not a matter of scale either, I sense that you will protest and say that it is all the energy everywhere that directs evolution, not just small pieces of energy here and there, and that is where you think that quantum entanglement allows a connection between energy at different locations.
The fact of the matter is that quantum physics is usually working with sub-atomic particles. The scale of evolution is in the biosphere, the world at the scale of animals and plants, not billions of times smaller at the sub-atomic particle scale.
I say this with humility and gentleness but it must be said; the whole evolution story truly is fiction, and many people who do not appear to see the glaring and scientifically demonstrable impossibility of evolution, cling to it as their justification for rejecting the one true God. It is as though they are willingly ignorant or blind to the obvious.
Again, while there is still time, I will pray that you come to know and have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ who is the way, the truth and the life. He is the only way that we all must be saved!
Windar12q, you need to understand that energy is not intelligent and it is most definitely not capable of writing the staggeringly brilliant, highly complex coded and incredibly varying information on the DNA of the millions of radically different genomes specific to each specie on this planet!
The author of the information written nucleotide by nucleotide in sequence with syntax on the hydrogen bridges between the ribose sugar strands of the DNA double helix requires a designer who is incomprehensibly brilliant; Jesus Christ is His name!
All the best,
Burrawang
Hello windar12q! What do you mean when you say that life changes its form but is not lost?
I find that I agree with the idea that life will never be destroyed, just with a different emphasis. One name for God is the Living God, and I stopped for a while to meditate on this truth. He, who is the most alive of anything that exists, chose to give us life; and not just a few decades on this earth followed by being dead forever. God promises us life to the fullest, for eternity:
18 For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from your ancestors, 19 but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect....23 For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God. - 1 Peter 1:18-19,23 (there are verses in between, so I encourage reading the full passage. We are given new life the moment we trust in Jesus)
Jesus answered. 44 “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day. - John 6:44 (a promise of the resurrection)
Going back a few posts, I read this statement:
"The supernatural does not exist because it cannot be proven to exist."
I have to disagree with this reasoning. Just because we don't have the tools to scientifically prove something doesn't mean it is false. In your example of relativity and quantum physics, was quantum physics false before we began to discover it? Or in another example, did microorganisms not exist until we could see them with microscopes? Living here on earth we do not have the tools to see God in His full glory, we know Him by faith (2 Corinthians 5:7), but we will be able to see God in heaven.
Windar12q Hi windar12q, please accept my apologies for getting your age wrong!
I don’t think any one of us fully gets over severe trauma such as losings one’s life partner or living through the 1940’s in the UK or all the other wars around the world since then, the memories do remain. I am heartened that you have family; I have four grandchildren myself and know what a wonderful blessing they are.
It is important to understand that evolution is not “natural selection”.
Natural selection occurs within individual species, but after natural selection has transpired no new information on the DNA of the specie has been created, indeed it invariably means that a quantity of complex coded information is lost forever; most of these mutations (or copying errors) in the DNA are of too small significance to be selectable at the macro survival/reproductive level, and so have little to zero real effect, but the inexorable combined mutational load (destruction of complex coded information) is continually increasing.
The complex specified information on the damaged DNA cannot be rewritten, the probability of it rewriting itself correctly by chance at all the levels required for full restoration far exceeds the likelihood of the analogy I gave previously of the entire works of Shakespeare or Walter Scott or Robert Louis Stevenson or Sir Arthur Conan Doyle or all four combined for that matter, being written by a flock of pigeons walking around on an open laptop keyboard; it is theoretically possible but you and I both know that the probability is so enormous that it just isn’t going to happen. The loss of information can impart a benefit to the specie at its location, and it may reproduce successfully and pass on its reduced complex specified information genome to subsequent generations and become fixed in the broader population, but nonetheless information is continually being lost every time this happens. The very rare directly beneficial mutations are outweighed enormously by neutral or deleterious mutations.
A repeatedly demonstrable scientific fact is that evolution meaning from first cell to human beings over any time period is an impossibility, it is demonstrably a grand illusion.
The sooner universities and schools start teaching the truth that the outdated mid nineteenth century theory of evolution is a false paradigm the better. To continue to adhere to it does no-one any good, it does not further scientific endeavour, in fact it stifles it!
So many people around the world are mentally blinded by the evolution lie; it is staggering that the clear rigorously determined sound scientific facts are unable to dislodge many peoples dearly held conviction that evolution is a proven process.
This fact uncovers the real truth that evolution is held in the hearts of many of its followers with religious fervour though they would all deny that, claiming scientific objectivity, but there it is, the truth, plain and simple, evolution is a mythology that I suggest was explicitly designed to explain how the biodiversity on earth originated without God.
Again, while there is still time, I pray that you come to know and have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ who is the way, the truth and the life.
Jesus is the only way through which we all must be saved!
Best Regards,
Burrawang
Hi windar12q, I am saddened to hear of the loss of your wife and sincerely hope that you are not alone but have some companionship in your life. You are doing a great job mastering this new communication technology, I’m sure there would be many 91 year old’s who would not have the faintest idea about how to even turn on a computer let alone debate and converse on a creation/evolution website as you do!
On reading your post and your discussion about “dreams”, I am reminded of some very relevant and important articles that provide alternate explanations to these phenomena, you may care to read at: -
https://creation.com/aliens-evolution-and-the-occult titled “Aliens, evolution and the occult” by Gary Bates that was published 24th February 2007
https://creation.com/an-impossible-dreamfor-an-atheist titled “An ‘impossible’ dream – for an Atheist” by David Catchpoole that was published 15th August 2008
https://creation.com/are-ghosts-real titled “Are ghosts real?” by Gary Bates that was published 28th December 2010
I would encourage you to read the above three articles as I think that you would find them very informative, given your lifetimes experience and interests.
My father was a pilot with the Royal Australian Air Force (RAAF) based in England from 1940 to 1945, I guess when you were likely a lot more spritely than you are now; and fortunately he survived the war, hence I am here now. As you would have been a teenager during those war years, I am sure that you would have considerable insight into that terrible time in history and man’s inhumanity towards man.
I must restate what I have said one way or another previously, that: -
1.) without God we would not exist
2.) evolution is one of the greatest hoax’s ever perpetrated on the human race
I wish you well and will pray that you come to know our Lord and Saviour Jesus who is the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords, the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.
Burrawang
Windar12q, Hi windar12q, apology accepted!
Well we have strayed a fair way from the theme of this particular forum titled "The Goodness of God: The Bible and the Problem of Evil" but I guess we are still well within the parameters of debate for this website and the evolution/creation discussion is relevant in many ways even if it should probably be located on another forum on this site.
In order to respond to your post accurately and concisely as I am able, I will address each paragraph by quoting your text in italics and will then respond on any matters that I feel are relevant or need clarification or refutation.
Your statements: -
“Hello burrawang, I apologise because I did get it the wrong way around when referring to the Bible giving the wrong information regarding the time of the flood; it was you who said that the sedimentary strata matched the time of the flood. If you read Dr Lycklama's research into this you will find it impossible to dictate the time correctly and I did point this out to you at the time of answering, but you said that my answer was ridiculous, perhaps you will refer to Dr Lycklama's work in the same way, because he agrees with me.”
Unfortunately and as is your usual practice, you make these statements but fail to quote or reference the text that you are referring to; I do not recall saying, “the sedimentary strata matched the time of the flood” those are your words not mine. What I have said on numerous occasions is that what we see around the world are enormous continental scale and larger areas of sedimentary rocks that are consistent with the historical record of the great flood recorded in Genesis in the Bible. There is a vast difference between the two statements. The point that I have been making all along is that it is not possible to accurately determine the age of a sample that was created in the distant past unless you have an eye witness who can act as a means of calibration and verification of the age determination process you are using, as all "deep-time" dating methods rely on a set of unproveable assumptions that cannot be tested, they must be assumed, and if they are assumed within a long age, evolutionary worldview then the age results will obviously reflect that, if the data is looked at through a Biblical worldview then the age results will obviously reflect that; the question really is which worldview is the correct one through which to view the data we have available. I assert that that the Biblical worldview is consistent with what we see in the world around us, that's all.
Your statements: -
“There are many forms of transition relating to evolution and you don't have to go to a museum to see this; the Galapagos cormorant is at this moment going through these changes - a real live transition happening before our very eyes. This Galapagos species is changing because it suits as its environment dictates and the chemical reaction within the genome will change to allow this to happen. The difference between us is, you believe it is the work of a God and I think it is the work of nature. I can demonstrate what I say, but can you? The answer to this question for you is no, because you have already admitted that you only rely on faith. These changes would occur in the individual species, but if life is evolving as one energy, the changes are not just happening to fit the species that is changing, but too fit all life. If this was not the case, life could change to something that might be harmful to its evolving and destroy all that work done over billions of years - what a waste of time that would have been. The physics that lays down the laws of energy can demonstrate the pattern of evolution; there is no need for a God, so why invent one?”
I believe that I have already pointed out with references to articles that the Galapagos Cormorant is most definitely not a transitional specie on another forum on this website, and it is necessary to reiterate that this species of bird is not an example of evolution in practice. You keep on saying that you demonstrate what you say, but rarely if at all do you in truth actually demonstrate what you say. It’s as though you believe that if you continue to say you demonstrate what you say, your readers will believe you.
It is worthwhile reiterating what nuclear physicist Dr Heinz Lycklama has stated again: - “Evolution is the greatest myth ever foisted on our society in the name of science."
Your statements: -
“If I asked you the same question put in a different way, such as what is responsible for these changes, you would say God, which spells out the end game and nowhere else to go. My answer would be I don't know, which would spur me on to explore more until I got an answer. Which of these two answers is the most intelligent? My reply would engineer purpose and purpose is the food on which intelligence feeds - no purpose, no us. Can't you see that religion is destroying the very thing that evolution dictates for our survival? This is why I wrote about the world, being ruled by one religion, it would destroy intelligent life because it would destroy constructive purpose.”
Again, your reasoning is fraught with assumptions and over simplifications. If you want to present an argument with actual evidence, then please do it! Please do not just continue to only present what your worldview dictates you believe are the weaknesses in the creation position without justification; it is becoming tiresome and pointless. Quotes and references are in most cases essential to back up what you are claiming, if you claim to be using sound science to substantiate your position; your opinion although interesting is not sufficient without referenced evidence, quotes or links to mainstream accepted peer reviewed papers on the subject etc..
Your statements: -
“I strongly disagree that you should not teach evolution in schools, why would you prefer to teach religion which goes against all that nature is telling us, which is imperative to our survival, surely you have to teach the truth? You admit your weakness by saying you rely solely on faith and that is not using logic, to put it bluntly, it is the logic of the madhouse. It means you would be teaching children about something you have no evidence for, only faith. Faith is a 50/50 guessing game, if you have no demonstrable evidence and a book that's not demonstrative, it should not be used as evidence. Frankly burrawang, I find this disgraceful.”
You are free to believe that teaching a proven myth as science to our children is alright but I for one know that it is tragic and wrong that evolution is being taught as the mechanism for how all the biodiversity on earth came to be here. In truth it is mass brainwashing of our children that is having a devastating effect on the mental health of many, with youth suicide rates escalating dramatically as young people believe the evolution lie without hope. It is truly a tragedy on a global scale and evolution has played a significant role in that escalation in youth suicide rates globally! Large sections of the secular mass media act as the propagandists continually, reinforcing the lie that is still being taught in schools, colleges and universities around the world.
Additionally, you can claim that I admit a "weakness", however, I say to you that I do nothing of the sort, and furthermore your statement is a logical fallacy. Just because a person has faith in God, it does not logically follow that they leave their brain in neutral, parked outside. Faith is strengthened by using one’s intellect, it is not weakened, it is strengthened!
“I see the fires have started again, take care,”
Yes, the fires are becoming a bit of a worry again, particularly for those poor souls down south around Canberra which is about 450 miles or more than 700 kilometres south of here, so we are indeed fortunate at present, thanks for your good wishes. Hopefully rain will come soon down there.
Again, I must repeat the main point from last post, all we see is that existing organism’s genomes are heading in a downhill, degenerative direction towards extinction!
That is an irrefutable, observable and statistical scientific fact!
Evolution is nothing more than a myth, it is an impossibility, a hoax perpetrated on mankind now for over 150 years and it’s already beyond the time for this egregious deception to be exposed for the fraud that it is, masquerading as science when the theory has been disproven time after time as an impossibility.
Best Regards,
Burrawang
windar12q Regarding statements made in your last post,within your first paragraph you stated: -
“but if I recall, you said the flood matches with the time - zone mentioned in the Bible; even by Dr Lycklama's own words, this is impossible. I think I said the same thing; this is a perfect example of how religion makes you tell untruths and the same applies to some of what Dr Lycklama says also. This proves the Bible was lying about the time and you have an academic Christian to prove this to be true.”
The above quoted text of yours is not only utter nonsense, I have never referred to any "time-zone mentioned in the Bible" indeed I am not aware of any such thing in the Bible but you do appear to have no problem putting words into my mouth without actually quoting what was said, and then you are basing your point on this same fiction of your own making. A disingenuous tactic that is worthy of disdain!
Reading that brilliant article again ( https://creation.com/lycklama-nuclear-physicist ) about very highly regarded brilliant specialist in experimental nuclear physics Dr Heinz Lyclama, I note that he is quoted as saying, “Evolution is the greatest myth ever foisted on our society in the name of science.”
And Dr Lycklama points out: -
“All attempts by evolutionists to show that first life from non-life by natural processes can be explained by evolution have come to naught for four main reasons:
1. The Law of Biogenesis discovered by Pasteur in 1864.
2. The failure of experiments like that of Miller in 1953 to show that life can come from non-life.
3. The mathematical probability of forming the first living cell by random chance processes is beyond possible, and
4. Information in a cell (DNA) requires an intelligent mind.”
The failure of the origin of first life from non-life by natural processes is actually a showstopper for evolution.
And that is the point, despite billions of dollars in research grants that has been spent over the past five decades or so and still being spent around the world it is clear that life does not spontaneously come about by itself, that is now abundantly clear to anyone working in the research field of trying to prove abiogenesis.
Furthermore, all we see is that existing organism’s genomes are heading in a downhill, degenerative direction towards extinction! That is an irrefutable, observable and statistical scientific fact!
That same article goes on to say: -
And even if we grant the first self-reproducing cell, it’s not the end of the problems. No one disputes that things change, but the small changes observed in nature just don’t add up to big changes. For one thing, they are going in the wrong direction: downhill instead of uphill. And, he points out, “the fossil record does not show the ‘innumerable transitional links’ expected by Darwin”— even 160 years later, and neither does it support human evolution.
That really sums up the observable facts very well!
I’m sorry to say this windar12q but it really does appear that you have missed the primary point being made that evolution is nothing more than a myth, it is an impossibility, a hoax perpetrated on mankind now for over 150 years and it’s already well and truly beyond the time for this egregious deception to be exposed for the fraud that it is, masquerading as science when the theory has been disproven time after time as an impossibility.
It is a sad thing that so many students who have been indoctrinated into the evolution cult myth will defend it tooth and nail arguing from the belief that what they have been taught and see reinforced daily on public media is actually science which it demonstrably is not; again as Dr Lyclama stated: - “Evolution is the greatest myth ever foisted on our society in the name of science.”
We see natural selection occurring all the time, but it is important to note that natural selection is NOT evolution, it is simply differential reproduction within a population, nothing more and nothing less. There aren't billions of transitional forms of creatures in the fossil record because they NEVER occurred, the transitional forms are just another part of the evolutionary myth.
The fanciful evolutionary tree of life is nothing more than more fanciful artwork propaganda to prop up the evolutionary paradigm. The real relationships between creatures and plants are better described using Biblical kinds rather than the much touted and referenced imaginary evolutionary tree of life. Doesn't it seem strange to you that we don't have at least a few million transitionary fossils in museum collections around the world. As with all evidence that refutes the evolutionary paradigm, a nice little story will be concocted and then everyone in academia will be expected to swallow it; and then it will be peddled in the mass media to make sure that no one strays from the "evolution religion", which is precisely what happens every year when new evidence arises that refutes evolution, again and again I have watched this happen over the past decade or three.
Thankfully, the tide is turning and the numbers of scientists and people in the community who understand that evolution is a myth is steadily growing.
It may well be one of those things that future generations look back to our time in history and wonder how so many in our scientific community and many clergy got it so wrong by teaching evolution theory as fact, when it demonstrably and so obviously isn't!
Indeed evolution is not even plausible given what we now know about the genetic entropy that is incessantly occurring throughout the animal and plant kingdoms; (Genetic Entropy is a term coined by Professor John Sanford who worked at Cornell university for 25 years. He is a brilliant pioneer in the field of genetics.) If you want to read more about John Sanford's work and Genetic Entropy see: - https://creation.com/geneticist-evolution-impossible
.
I sincerely hope that you come to know God, have a personal relationship with Him; He is faithful and true and Loves you more than you could know.
All the best,
Burrawang
Hi windar12q, faith is most definitely not guessing!
Did you read the article that was published yesterday, 29th January 2020 at https://creation.com/lycklama-nuclear-physicist that is titled “Nuclear physicist for creation!” It is a very informative article and well worth the read!
The reason I cited those two articles is that they are currently just published in the last 24 hours; I wanted to demonstrate to you that they are just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the thousands of practicing mainstream scientists around the world who: -
1.) know that “evolution” and the “big bang” are 100% fictional fairy stories
2.) believe that God created as recorded in the Bible, the world’s oldest history book.
But don’t take my word for it; take a look at one small example of working scientists on a broad range of disciplines who readily admit that the Biblical creation account is accurate/ The list of scientists can be found at https://creation.com/scientists-alive-today-who-accept-the-biblical-account-of-creation and is copied below: -
Dr Paul Ackerman, Assistant Professor of Psychology, Wichita State University.
Dr E. Theo Agard, Medical Physics
Dr James Allan, Genetics
Dr John Ashton, Chemistry, Food technology
Dr Steve Austin, Geology
Dr S.E. Aw, Biochemistry
Dr Geoff Barnard, Immunology
Dr Don Batten, Plant physiology
Dr Donald Baumann, Solid State Physics, Professor of Biology and Chemistry, Cedarville University
Dr John Baumgardner, Electrical Engineering, Space Physicist, Geophysicist, expert in supercomputer modeling of plate tectonics
Dr Élizabeth Beauchesne, Biomedical Sciences.
Dr Jerry Bergman, Psychology, Human Biology/Physiology
Dr Kimberly Berrine, Microbiology & Immunology
Prof. Vladimir Betina, Microbiology, Biochemistry & Biology
Dr Markus Blietz, Astrophysicist
Dr Raymond G. Bohlin, Biology
Dr Andrew Bosanquet, Biology, Microbiology
Dr Edward A. Boudreaux, Theoretical Chemistry
Dr David Boylan, Chemical Engineering
Dr Bernard Brandstater, Anesthesiology
Prof. Stuart Burgess, Engineering and Biomimetics,
Professor of Design & Nature, Head of Department, Mechanical Engineering, University of Bristol (UK)
Prof. Linn E. Carothers, Associate Professor of Statistics
Dr Ben Carson, Professor and chief of pediatric neurosurgery at Johns Hopkins University. He has 51 honorary doctorates, including from Yale and Columbia Universities.
Dr Robert W. Carter, Marine Biology
Dr David Catchpoole, Plant Physiology (read his story
Prof. Sung-Do Cha, Physics
Dr Eugene F. Chaffin, Professor of Physics
Dr Ainsley Chalmers, Biochemist, medical researcher
Dr Choong-Kuk Chang, Genetic Engineering
Prof. Jeun-Sik Chang, Aeronautical Engineering
Dr Xidong Chen, Solid State Physics, Assistant Professor of Physics, Cedarville University
Dr Donald Chittick, Physical Chemistry
Prof. Chung-Il Cho, Biology Education
Dr John M. Cimbala, Mechanical Engineering
Dr Harold Coffin, Paleontology
Dr Bob Compton, DVM, PhD
Dr Matthew Cserhati, Molecular Biology
Dr Ken Cumming, Biology
Dr Malcolm Cutchins, Aerospace Engineering
Dr Lionel Dahmer, Analytical Chemistry
Dr Raymond V. Damadian, M.D., Pioneer of magnetic resonance imaging
Dr Chris Darnbrough, Biochemistry
Dr Nancy M. Darrall, Botany
Dr Bryan Dawson, Mathematics
Dr Douglas Dean, Biological Chemistry
Prof. Stephen W. Deckard, Assistant Professor of Education
Dr David A. DeWitt, Biology, Biochemistry, Neuroscience
Dr Don DeYoung, Astronomy, atmospheric physics
Dr Geoff Downes, Plant Physiology
Dr Ted Driggers, Operations research
Robert H. Eckel, Medical Research (more than 80 research papers)
Dr André Eggen, Genetics
Dr Leroy Eimers, Atmospheric Science,
Professor of Physics and Mathematics, Cedarville University
Dr Dudley Eirich, Molecular biologist
Prof. Dennis L. Englin, Professor of Geophysics
Prof. Danny Faulkner, Astronomy
Dr Dennis Flentge, Physical Chemistry, Professor of Chemistry and Chair of the Department of Science and Mathematics, Cedarville University
Prof. Carl B. Fliermans, Professor of Biology
Prof. Dwain L. Ford, Organic Chemistry
Prof. Robert H. Franks, Associate Professor of Biology
Dr Kenneth W. Funk, Organic Chemistry; biologically active peptide synthesis.
Dr Alan Galbraith, Watershed Science
Dr Roger G. Gallop, P.G., Geology
Dr Robert Gentry, Physics
Dr Maciej Giertych, Genetics
Dr Werner Gitt, Information Science
Dr Steven Gollmer, Atmospheric Science, Professor of Physics, Cedarville University
Dr D.B. Gower, Biochemistry
Dr Stephen Grocott, Industrial Chemistry
Dr Donald Hamann, Food Science
Dr Barry Harker, Philosophy
Dr Charles W. Harrison, Applied Physics, Electromagnetics
Dr John Hartnett, Physics and Cosmology
Dr Mark Harwood, Satellite Communications
Dr Joe Havel, Botanist, Silviculture, Ecophysiology
Dr George Hawke, Environmental Science
Dr Steven Hayes, Nuclear Science
Dr Margaret Helder, Science Editor, Botany
Dr Larry Helmick, Organic Chemistry, Professor of Chemistry, Cedarville University
Dr Harold R. Henry, Engineering
Dr Dewey Hodges, Professor of Aerospace Engineering
Dr Joseph Henson, Entomology
Dr Jonathan Henry, Chemical Engineering, Astronomy
Dr Robert A. Herrmann, Professor of Mathematics, US Naval Academy
Dr Kelly Hollowell, Molecular and Cellular Pharmacology
Dr Ed Holroyd, III, Atmospheric Science
Dr Bob Hosken, Biochemistry
Dr George F. Howe, Botany
Dr Neil Huber, Physical Anthropology
Dr Russell Humphreys, Physics
Dr James A. Huggins, Professor and Chair, Department of Biology
Dr G. Charles Jackson, Science Education
Dr Evan Jamieson, Hydrometallurgy
Prof. George T. Javor, Biochemistry
Dr Pierre Jerlström, Molecular Biology
Dr Arthur Jones, Biology
Dr Raymond Jones, Agricultural Science
Dr Valery Karpounin, Mathematical Sciences, Logic, Formal Logic
Dr Dean Kenyon, Biology
Prof. Gi-Tai Kim, Biology
Prof. Harriet Kim, Biochemistry
Prof. Jong-Bai Kim, Biochemistry
Prof. Jung-Han Kim, Biochemistry
Prof. Jung-Wook Kim, Environmental Science
Prof. Kyoung-Rai Kim, Analytical Chemistry
Prof. Kyoung-Tai Kim, Genetic Engineering
Prof. Young-Gil Kim, Materials Science
Prof. Young In Kim, Engineering
Dr David King, Astronomy.
Dr John W. Klotz, Biology
Dr Vladimir F. Kondalenko, Cytology/Cell Pathology
Dr Felix Konotey-Ahulu, Physician, leading expert on sickle-cell anemia
Dr Leonid Korochkin, M.D.,
Dr John K.G. Kramer, Biochemistry
Dr Johan Kruger, Zoology
Dr Wolfgang Kuhn, biology researcher and lecturer
Dr Heather Kuruvilla, Plant Physiology, Senior Professor of Biology, Cedarville
University
Prof. Jin-Hyouk Kwon, Physics
Prof. Myung-Sang Kwon, Immunology
Dr Barry Lawrence, Nuclear Engineering
Dr Matti Leisola, Biochemistry (esp. of enzymes), D.Sc. in biotechnology, Dean, Faculty of Chemical and Materials Sciences, Aalta University, Finland
Dr John G. Leslie, biochemistry, molecular biology, medicine, biblical archaeology
Prof. Lane P. Lester, Biology, Genetics
Dr Jean Lightner, Agriculture, Veterinary science
Dr Peter Line, Neuroscience
Dr Jason Lisle, Astrophysics
Dr Raúl E López, Meteorology
Dr Alan Love, Chemistry
Dr Gloria Luciani-Torres, Molecular Oncology Researcher (Cancer Biology)
Dr Heinz Lycklama, Nuclear physics and Information Technology
Dr Ian Macreadie, Molecular Biology and Microbiology
Dr John Marcus, Molecular Biology
Dr George Marshall, Opthalmology researcher
Dr James Mason, Nuclear physics
Dr Ralph Matthews, Radiation Chemistry
Dr Mark McClain, Inorganic Chemistry, Associate Professor of Chemistry, Cedarville University
Dr John McEwan, Organic Chemistry
Prof. Andy McIntosh, Combustion theory, aerodynamics
Dr David Menton, Anatomy
Dr Angela Meyer, Plant Physiology
Dr John Meyer, Physiology
Dr Victor Meyer, Entomology, environmental science
Dr Douglas Miller, Professor of Chemistry, Cedarville University
Dr Robert T. Mitchell, Internal Medicine (specialist)
Dr Colin W. Mitchell, Geography
Dr Gina Mohammed, Plant physiology
Dr John N. Moore, Science Education
Dr John D. Morris, Geology
Dr Len Morris, Physiology
Dr Graeme Mortimer, Geology
Dr Stanley A. Mumma, Architectural Engineering
Dr Ron Neller, fluvial geomorphology
Prof. Hee-Choon No, Nuclear Engineering
Dr Eric Norman, Biomedical science
Dr David Oderberg, Philosophy
Professor Douglas Oliver,
Professor of Biology
Prof. John Oller, Linguistics
Prof. Chris D. Osborne,
Assistant Professor of Biology
Dr Charles Pallaghy, Botany
Dr Gary E. Parker, Biology, Cognate in Geology (Paleontology)
Dr Terry Phipps, Professor of Biology, Cedarville University
Dr Jules H. Poirier, Aeronautics, Electronics
Dr Georgia Purdom, Molecular Genetics
Dr Graeme Quick, Engineering, former Principle Research Scientist with CSIRO (Australia)
Dr Dan Reynolds, Organic Chemistry
Dr Chad Rodekohr, Engineering, Physics
Dr Jung-Goo Roe, Biology
Dr David Rodda, PhD, Population Genetics
Dr David Rosevear, Chemistry
Dr Marcus Ross, Paleontology
Dr Ariel A. Roth, Biology
Dr Ronald G. Samec, Astronomy
Dr John Sanford, Plant science / genetics
Dr Jonathan D. Sarfati, Physical chemistry / spectroscopy
Dr Alicia (Lisa) Schaffner, Associate Professor of Biology, Cedarville University
Dr Joachim Scheven Paleontology
Dr Ian Scott, Education
Dr Saami Shaibani, Forensic Physics
Dr Young-Gi Shim, Chemistry
Prof. Hyun-Kil Shin, Food Science
Dr Mikhail Shulgin, Physics
Dr Emil Silvestru, Geology/karstology
Dr Roger Simpson, Engineering
Dr Horace D. (‘Skip’) Skipper,
Professor Emeritus Soil microbiology, College of Agriculture, Forestry and Life Sciences, Clemson University, SC, USA
Dr E. Norbert Smith, Zoology
Dr Andrew Snelling, Geology
Prof. Man-Suk Song, Computer Science
Dr Timothy G. Standish, Biology
Prof. James Stark, Assistant Professor of Science Education
Prof. Brian Stone, Engineer
Dr Esther Su, Biochemistry
Dr Dennis Sullivan, Biology, surgery, chemistry,
Professor of Biology, Cedarville University
Dr Greg Tate, Plant Pathology
Dr Stephen Taylor, Electrical Engineering
Dr Larry Thaete, Molecular and Cellular Biology and Pathobiology
Dr Ker C. Thomson, Geophysics
Dr Michael Todhunter, Forest Genetics
Dr Lyudmila Tonkonog, Chemistry/Biochemistry
Dr S.H. ‘Wally’ Tow (Tow Siang Hwa), retired chairman of the Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology at the University of Singapore
Dr Royal Truman, Organic Chemistry
Dr Brandon van der Ventel, Nuclear scientist
Dr Gerald Van Dyke, Ph.D. and Professor Emeritus in Botany, North Carolina State University
Dr Larry Vardiman, Atmospheric Science
Prof. Walter Veith, Zoology
Dr Joachim Vetter, Biology
Dr Erich Vorpagel, Biochemistry, Molecular Biology; computational protein function.
Dr Tas Walker, Mechanical Engineering and Geology
Dr Jeremy Walter, Mechanical Engineering
Dr Keith Wanser, Physics
Dr Noel Weeks, Ancient Near-East History (also has B.Sc. in Zoology)
Dr Carl Werner, Biologist
Dr A.J. Monty White, Chemistry/Gas Kinetics
Dr John Whitmore, Geology/Palaeontology
Dr Kurt Wise, Palaeontology
Dr Bryant Wood, Archaeology
Prof. Seoung-Hoon Yang, Physics
Dr Thomas (Tong Y.) Yi, Aerospace & Mechanical Engineering
Dr Ick-Dong Yoo, Genetics
Dr Sung-Hee Yoon, Biology
Dr Patrick Young, Chemistry and Materials Science
Prof. Keun Bae Yu, Geography
Dr Daiqing Yuan, Theoretical Physics
Dr Henry Zuill, Biology
Regarding a statement that you made in your comment, sorry, but an appeal to theoretical physics in energy/particle equations such as a Hamiltonian or Lagrangian mathematical convention is categorically not going to explain how the brilliantly intelligent design and complex specified information written on genomes came to be there. These mathematical tools in physics are generally used to solve problems that either are too laborious using Newtonian physics or are at the sub-atomic scale whereby quantum mechanics requires a different approach to attempt to solve a problem. Particle properties and interactions at a sub-atomic scale are clearly not going to provide any survivability or reproductive benefit to a life form
.
You are sadly mistaken if you expect me to believe that evolution:-
1.) is a real phenomenon that created all the diversity of life on this planet.
2.) was guided by a man-made mathematical tool used in physics in closed systems for energy calculations.
It also appears that you have not understood that evolution is a fallacy, a massive hoax that continues to be pushed at every opportunity onto our children in the majority of educational institutions around the world, but thankfully this is slowly changing as people realise the paucity of supporting evidence and the well-executed rigorous scientific research in many fields that refutes evolution outright by proving it to be impossible at every level.
All the best,
Burrawang
In keeping with being current, another short but interesting and relevant article can be found at:- https://creation.com/richter-lifetime-achievement that is titled: - “Henry Richter receives Lifetime Achievement Award” by CMI staff and published last Tuesday, 28 January 2020 (GMT + 10) that is also pasted below in blue italics: -
Dr Henry Richter, who has previously been interviewed for Creationmagazine and is the author of Spacecraft Earth, is one of the most accomplished living creation scientists. He worked for the Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL), which was later incorporated into NASA. He helped to develop America’s first satellite, Explorer I.
Dr Richter was given the Radio Club of America Lifetime Achievement award at the 110thbanquet of the Club at the Weston Times Square on November 23, 2019. He was able to make some remarks at the banquet. Dr. Richter wanted to use the opportunity to not only thank the Club for the award and tell his life story, but also to give his Christian testimony. But he only had three minutes in which to do so! But Dr Richter rose to the challenge, and gave us permission to republish his comments below.
I want to thank the radio club and all you folks for the honour of awarding me the lifetime activity award. This came totally unexpectedly and I’m afraid I was somewhat blown away when I received the notice.
I want to acknowledge ham radio and the role it played in leading me into a lifetime of technology. I became interested in ham radio when in the fifth grade. My parents were art teachers at poly high school in Long Beach California. When they taught summer school they needed a place to park me, and so when I was in the fifth grade they made arrangements for me to sit in on the high school ham radio course. And in the prior summer, they made arrangements for me to take the high school chemistry course. The summer after that the chemistry teacher asked me to be the lab assistant for the course. I imagine it was somewhat disconcerting to high school students that have a young squirt handling the stockroom and passing out chemicals and glassware.
I was privileged to work with two Nobel Prize scientists. First was Dr. Linus Pauling. I was an instructor in his freshman chemistry course at Caltech. He later served as the chairman of my final doctoral orals committee. A few years later I worked for Dr. Willard Libby who invited me to be on his staff in the Institute for Geophysics at UCLA.
But let me switch to something which I think is more important to say to you folks. (I intended to say “this is something I said to the JPL staff when they invited me to speak last year at the 60th anniversary of the Explorer 1 launch”—but I forgot to do it). As a scientist, I became fascinated with this marvelous universe in which we exist. Even more so, this remarkable spacecraft on which we ride on which contains all the features and substances required to allow human life to exist. I believe this is unique in the universe. And then of course there are these marvelous bodies that we have been given. We have a brain consisting of more than 100 billion neurons which are all wired together electrically. This could not have come together accidentally by random events.
To me as an engineer, this all shows an elaborate design. And when I use the word design, that demands a designer. Who can design all this but God Himself? I always believed in the existence of God—somewhere. I was halfway through my life before I found out this being we call God didn’t just exist somewhere in the cosmos but was very personal. In fact, He was desirous of a relationship with me and everybody else. So what did he do? He came to this earth 2000 years ago in the body of Jesus Christ to offer a relationship with mankind. I accepted that offer, which I found made me a Christian. At that point my life changed and since then I’ve had a life of peace, joy and purpose.
I don’t know how many of you in this audience also have made that wonderful discovery of a relationship. If you have, I commend you for it. If not and if this sounds strange to you, do yourself a favour and investigate it for yourself.
Once more I deeply appreciate this honour you’ve given me tonight. God bless you all.
Windar12q Hi windar12q, we will have to agree to disagree on the points that you have made in your post.
I don’t recall ever admitting that God cannot be demonstrated. What I did say was, “the decision whether to believe God exists or not is not a matter for science but rather it is a deeply personal decision, a matter of your heart and conscience.” This is about a person’s freewill choice to believe in God or be an atheist, but it does not therefore follow that we cannot use science to see whether the world around us is consistent with Biblical history, which I must add it clearly is!
Do you not remember that I have given many examples of clear cut evidence for the existence of God; a good example that immediately comes to mind is the complex specified information written on the genomes of all living things that by definition absolutely requires a super intelligent author. If you believe that chance (in the form of random mutations) and “deep time” can write the complex specified information on the genomes of all living things, then you are sadly mistaken. Eons of time and random mutations are not able to write coded complex specified information. A poor but nonetheless suitable comparison would be to say that a flock of pigeons walked around on a laptop keyboard and wrote the entire works of Shakespeare including punctuation etc. but that poor comparison pales when compared to the overlaying of complexity at so many levels of irreducibly complex specified information written on genomes which is many, many, many orders of magnitude greater in complexity. What is observed today in the laboratory, is a continuing reduction in complex specified information in genomes, the organisms are “devolving” if I can coin a word; i.e. complex specified information is being lost across the board; any very rare beneficial mutations are simply ineffective against the inexorable onslaught of deterioration of complex specified information on the genome. All life is heading for a crash at some point in the future when the mutational load, corruption of the complex specified information reaches a point that prevents species from continuing to be able to reproduce and survive in the world. This fact therefore means that if you head back through time the genomes of all living things were less damaged, containing a greater amount of complex specified information than they contain today. This powerfully supports the Biblical account! Indeed when God created life He said, “it was very good.” and so it would have been back then, there would have been no sickness, no deterioration and no death!
Genesis 1: 24 – 30
24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
I must point out that it takes a stupendously enormous amount of faith to believe that the complex specified information written on genomes wrote itself without an intelligent author.
The critical point that you appear to be missing is that evolutionary atheists on the whole exercise faith in their strongly held beliefs, though some would not be aware of this fact. Some examples of the faith that I am referring to are: -
a.) Faith that evolution is how all the forms of life originated on earth.
b.) Faith that the big bang is how the universe formed.
c.) Faith that radiometric dating methods are an accurate way of determining the age of samples.
d.) Ultimately, faith that there is no God.
If you feel that there is a difference between having faith in God and the above four points a.) to d.), I would be interested hear what you believe the difference is.
Regarding the question that you have posited: -
“why do you accept that which cannot be demonstrated, instead of that which can?”
Well first of all I reject the premise embedded in your question. Evidence that is demonstrable and highly consistent with the Bible can be found in many different disciplines including geology, biology, physics, nuclear physics, medicine, archaeology, palaeontology, history, cosmology etc. etc.
Secondly, if you look at the first three of the four points above, a.) to c.) you will see that: -
“that which can”
in truth actually can’t, although you will no doubt disagree, the fact is that these three points totally rely on untestable, unverifiable assumptions, guesswork and wishful thinking to prop up their religiously held existence in many parts of the current secular science community!
It is a demonstrable fact that a considerable amount of faith, guesswork, assumption and wishful thinking are utilised to prop these atheist icons up without which they would have been thrown out long ago.
On a more current note, you may find it informative to read an article published yesterday, 29th January 2020 at https://creation.com/lycklama-nuclear-physicist that is titled “Nuclear physicist for creation!”
I hope the weather warms up in your part of the world!
All the best,
Burrawang
windar12q, Ultimately windar12q, the decision whether to believe God exists or not is not a matter for science but rather it is a deeply personal decision, a matter of your heart and conscience.
I sincerely hope that you discover God for yourself.
He is ever faithful and true!
Kind Regards,
Burrawang
Windar12q, regarding Mars, an appeal to conjecture or supposition about a flood that may have occurred on Mars is not in any way supporting evidence for or against a flood occurring here on Earth.
The data and references that I have cited refer to the overwhelming body of evidence that a global flood has occurred here on Earth, and furthermore the evidence supports the historical reality of the great global flood of Noah’s day that is specifically recorded in the Bible.
To imbue some degree of credibility to your statements, relevant, rational evidence is needed that you assert supports a cogent argument that you are hopefully making!
I have done a little research on Mars. All I have found is evidence of some erosional features and small traces of water present on Mars, but this is hardly evidence to defend your statement “burrawang did the same thing as you when he tried to defend the flood with made up rhetoric, that was not very well thought out. His reasoning for the flood was all wrong”
Again, if you are going to insist on making brash statements such as the one quoted above, then it is imperative you cite real and relevant evidence that support each statement you are making? Unfortunately, you continue to not do that.
Again, what is this question that you say I have not answered???
Again, what is this equation that you refer to regarding the fine tuning of our solar system???
When you let me know the answer to these two straightforward questions, I'll endeavour to provide you with supported and referenced answers.
Regards,
Burrawang
In regard to the "The Goodness of God: The Bible and the Problem of Evil" it is most worthwhile to fully understand who Jesus is; in the following Epistle of Paul to the Church in Colossae, Paul confirms that Jesus is the Creator of all things "and in Him all things hold together" and that Jesus has reconciled all things to Himself by the blood of His cross through which we are forgiven our numerous sins and underlying sinful nature.
Colosians 1 : 15-23
The Preeminence of Christ
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16 For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. 17 And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent. 19 For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.
21 And you, who once were alienated and hostile in mind, doing evil deeds, 22 he has now reconciled in his body of flesh by his death, in order to present you holy and blameless and above reproach before him, 23 if indeed you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the gospel that you heard, which has been proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, became a minister.
windar12q With sincere respect windar12q, you do make a lot of unsubstantiated and evidently false accusations against those who don’t agree with your beliefs.
You claim in your own words, “burrawang did the same thing as you when he tried to defend the flood with made up rhetoric, that was not very well thought out. His reasoning for the flood was all wrong” yet, as is your usual practice you do not provide any supporting evidence whatsoever for your demonstrably false statements.
I refute your statement that I made up “rhetoric” to defend the flood. If you truly believe the above statement of yours then it would be informative to hear from you what evidence you believe supports it!
Although, it was not from this post, you appear to have a problem with the global geographic extent of vast sedimentary sheets of the Earth’s surface crustal rocks that undeniably exist on continental scales across the entire globe including under the oceans and Antarctica. The existence of this massive geographic extent and depth of this global sedimentary layer is most logically explained by mass sediment transport and deposition from a global catastrophic flood. Repeatable flume tank research into the characteristics of high volume water transported, sorted and deposited sediments that create formations of sedimentary layers strongly support this view. I suggest that it is no coincidence that the historical account that we read in Genesis supports this view 100% and explains the origin of the continental scale, global sedimentary layers.
You would be very well advised to read, the article at this link: - https://creation.com/age-of-the-earth particularly the section titled, “Geological evidence for a young age of the earth” and in particular the evidences that are provided at bullet point 29 that I have pasted below for you in brackets [ ]: -
[ Flume tank research with sediment of different particle sizes show that layered rock strata that were thought to have formed over huge periods of time in lake beds actually formed very quickly. Even the precise layer thicknesses of rocks were duplicated after they were ground into their sedimentary particles and run through the flume. See Experiments in stratification of heterogeneous sand mixtures, Sedimentation Experiments: Nature finally catches up! and Sandy Stripes Do many layers mean many years? Also, very fine particles have been shown to settle far more quickly than previously thought, enabling the rapid formation of mudstone deposits. ]
Before you make false accusatory statements, I humbly suggest that you provide real, peer reviewed, published evidence to support your reasoning, otherwise your unjustified straw man statements are empty and appear to be solely based on your own particular worldview without any supporting scientific research or references.
If you would like to inform yourself about the flood and its resulting sedimentary rock strata, there is rigorous scientific research available which I strongly suggest you read, a good a place as any to start are any or all of the following 15 articles at:
https://creation.com/sedimentary-rocks-geologic-time-scale ; https://creation.com/defining-the-flood-post-flood-boundary-in-sedimentary-rocks ; https://creation.com/continental-erosion ; https://creation.com/tremendous-erosion-flood ; https://creation.com/images/pdfs/tj/j30_1/j30_1_63-69.pdf ; https://creation.com/brisbane-basement-rocks ; https://creation.com/genesis-and-catastrophe ; https://creation.com/flood-boundary-erosion ; https://creation.com/kt-boundary-flood-1 ; https://creation.com/images/pdfs/tj/j30_2/j30_2_67-75.pdf ; https://creation.com/images/pdfs/tj/j27_2/j27_2_62-70.pdf ; https://creation.com/early-arguments-for-deep-time-3 ; https://creation.com/early-arguments-for-deep-time-3 ; https://creation.com/pyramid-rock ; https://creation.com/post-flood-catastrophism ; https://creation.com/images/pdfs/tj/j24_1/j24_1_56-64.pdf
ON THE ACTUAL TOPIC OF THIS FORUM.
The Goodness of God: The Bible and the Problem of Evil.
Really, in a nutshell this really comes down to man’s choices. A person can CHOOSE to do good or to do evil. It is really all about freewill, making choices!
People throughout the world from all cultures have the ability to choose whether to steal or not to steal; to lie or not to lie; to cause mischief, or not to cause mischief; to covet or not to covet; to kill or not to kill; to hate or not to hate; to Love God or not to love God.
I think that it is very likely that the method that God used to create man with absolute free will is really the only way that it could have been done if we are to truly have the faculty of absolute free choice. I have not been able to come up with any other scenario that God could have used that results in mankind being in a right relationship with Him, his Creator through free choice. There is no other way. The usual objections to this are that God could have made us unable to choose wrong and always express love, but as you should logically be able to see, this scenario would immediately remove our absolute freewill and ability to make choices, we would in a sense be complicated automatons. An expression of Love from us would not be as meaningful or as absolute as an expression of Love as it would be from a being who consciously chooses to Love you rather than being “programmed” to Love you. The “love” would be in effect meaningless.
The fact is that God Loves every one of us right now.
Your understanding of the crucifixion is incorrect too: -
1.) There is no other event in human history across all the cultures and all the nations that is independently verified anywhere near as many times as this historical fact! To say otherwise is to display a lack of knowledge of accepted historical fact.
Also, you may be interested to read of the historical accounts of “the darkness” that came over the land at the time of the crucifixion at:- https://creation.com/darkness-at-the-crucifixion-metaphor-or-real-history and https://creation.com/incarnation-why-god-became-man \
Furthermore, you would be well advised to understand that Jesus is the Creator!
To support this the Gospel of John Chapter 1 tells us in verses 1 to 3: -
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was with God in the beginning.
3 Through Him all things were made, and without him nothing was made that has been made.
In other words Jesus the Son existed before the world was even created as He is God.
2.) The Holy Trinity is God in three Persons, that is, The Father, The Son, The Holy Spirit. You would do well to read: - https://creation.com/jesus-christ-our-creator-a-biblical-defence-of-the-trinity also!
It is also vitally important to understand that Jesus, as the last Adam came to suffer the horribly painful and ignominious death of crucifixion in order to die for the sins of the world, that’s every man, woman and child that has ever lived. ‘For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life’ John 3:16
All the best,
Burrawang
Hello windar12q. You may remember that Biblical slavery was different than the slavery that occurred in the 18th/19th century. I think this article lays out these differences very well. https://www.torahclass.com/archived-articles/1660-biblical-slavery-how-bad-was-it-really-by-joanna-m-saidel. By reading a bit more on the historical context you will understand my beliefs better. God Himself freed the Israelites from slavery in Egypt, and He repeatedly calls on them to remember this experience in their treatment of others. The Israelites knew what slavery was like when it turned bad, so they were called to treat people better ("slave" and "servant" are both valid translations of the same Hebrew word).
As for the kind of slavery you are describing, virtually everything about it is condemned in scripture:
- Putting profit above human life and rights: Proverbs 1:8-19, 1 Timothy 6:6-10, Jeremiah 22:13-17
- Saying certain people aren't valuable: James 2:1-13, Galatians 3:26-29, Philippians 2:1-11, Luke 12:6-7
- Disregard for suffering: Matthew 12:1-13, Proverbs 14:31
- Denial of justice: Zechariah 7:9-10, Leviticus 19:15, Colossians 4:1
You may also enjoy reading about William Wilberforce, John Newton, and Harriet Tubman; all abolitionists who were shaped by their Christian faith. Newton was a slave trader himself for a significant period of time, but he repented years later and published an influential work speaking against slavery (he also wrote "Amazing Grace"). Wilberforce introduce measures to abolish the slave trade to the British Parliament for years until one finally passed. Tubman was a conductor of the American "underground railroad" who guided escaped slaves to freedom in the northern states. She had a very intimate relationship with God and perceived His guidance directly. I would put sources here but this is all easily found with a quick internet search.
Hello again windar12q. I would like to address your assumption that Biblical writers wrote only what they wanted to hear. In many places the Bible indicates the opposite was true. The Old Testament prophets were regularly given unpopular messages, so much so that they had to constantly denounce the false prophets who were speaking only what the people wanted to hear. Take for example this situation faced by the prophet Jeremiah: God had said that He would cause a devastating invasion by Babylon as punishment for Israel's sin. However, the false prophets were proclaiming peace and prosperity.
13 But (Jeremiah) said, “Alas, Sovereign Lord! The prophets keep telling them (Israel), ‘You will not see the sword or suffer famine. Indeed, I will give you lasting peace in this place.’”
14 Then the Lord said to (Jeremiah), “The prophets are prophesying lies in my name. I have not sent them or appointed them or spoken to them. They are prophesying to you false visions, divinations, idolatries[a] and the delusions of their own minds". - Jeremiah 14:13-14
The New Testament confirms that this continues to happen. I see it here every time scripture is cited out of context or it's meaning is twisted to say something it never said.
3 For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4 They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths. 5 But you, keep your head in all situations, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, discharge all the duties of your ministry. - 2 Timothy 4:3-5
Thank you for posting, @ekrause1406 and @burrawang!
I would be curious to hear @windar12q's thoughts! :)
Hi ekrause1406, what you have written in your paper is certainly true and those wonderfully familiar Bible passages confirm what you have written. All the people of the world are all able to live their lives in this wonderfully created universe because of the love and goodness of God; it is the injustices and unfairness that are forced upon many less fortunate people by other people, that acts as a stumbling block to the many who do not understand that evil does not come from God.
I am reminded of a brilliant book that I have been studying recently that has a wonderful section in it that clearly sets out the events from scripture that the free will of Adam set in motion.
DISMANTLING THE BIG BANG by Alex Williams and John Hartnett PH.D 2005 Published 2005 by Master Books Green Forest, AR 72638 The excerpt below is copied from the bottom of page 217 to 224
Reproduced with the kind permission of New Leaf Publishing Group.
The Israelites were a light in a dark world. Not because they were in any way superior to any other peoples, but simply because God chose them to be the bearers of His plan of salvation. In the nation of Israel we do not see a race of super humans leading the world out of darkness and into light. What we do see is the Creator God being totally committed to those He loves.
The name “Israel” was given by God to the patriarch Jacob. Jacob was the grandson of Abraham and he became the father of the 12 tribes of Israel. God changed his name following a personal encounter when Jacob “Wrestled with God” and would not let Him go until God blessed him (Gen. 32:28; NKJV).
The Israelites were also called “Hebrews”(Exod. 1:15—19) and they spoke the Hebrew language. This name is derived from their ancestor Eber, the great-great-grandson of Noah, who outlived all his descendants down to the time of Abraham. In addition, they (along with Arabs) are sometimes called “Semites,” a name derived from their ancestor Shem, one of the three sons of Noah.
In later times, King Solomon’s sin of idolatry caused `the kingdom of Israel to be divided in two. The northern kingdom (called “Israel”) was eventually destroyed, and the southern kingdom (called “Judah”) was sent into exile. On return from exile, people from all 12 tribes became known as “Jews” (after Judah), and so it continued into New Testament times and down to our own day.
So why did God choose the Israelites? To answer this question we need to go back to the beginning.
THE GARDEN OF EDEN, THE FALL, AND GOD’S GREAT PLAN OF REDEMPTION
God created man to be like Himself (Gen. 1:26—27). We can reasonably infer that this meant God desired fellowship with man, in a similar way that Adam found fellowship with Eve (he did not find it among the animals, only with another like himself – Gen. 2:18—23). This is confirmed by the Great Commandment, to love God with all our heart, soul, mind and strength (Mark 12:28—30). We can also reasonably infer that God wanted this relationship to endure, and thus man would live forever like God does – there would be no death. Biology affirms the idea that we could (theoretically) live forever; our cells have the ability to repair and replace themselves. The only reason we die of old age (even if we had perfect nutrition and were able to avoid all injury and disease) is that there appears to be a genetic program that limits the number of times our cells can divide to replace those that are damaged or worn – presumably a result of the Curse (which we will discuss shortly). Genesis also implies that our physical immortality depended upon continuing access to the tree of life (Gen. 3:22—24). The tree of life will also reappear in the new creation (Rev. 22:1—2). Where we will remain alive for eternity.
God gave Adam and Eve everything they needed – food, companionship, and fruitful labour in their care of the Garden. They had no immediate need for clothing or shelter as the environment was perfect and their moral character unspoiled. God gave them just one rule – they were not to eat the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
Why did God do that? We suggest that the forbidding of the fruit was a token of dominion. If Adam and Eve had kept the one rule, they would have lived in obedient submission as creatures in a right relationship with their Creator. In breaking the rule, however, they chose to reject God’s dominion so they could decide “good” and “evil” for themselves and become “gods” by their own authority (Gen. 3:5, 22).
The penalty for Adam and Eve’s disobedience was immediate death. “. . . in the day that you eat of it you shall die (Gen. 2:17). However, Adam lived for hundreds of years after the Fall and died when he was 930 (Gen.5:5). Some Bible commentators therefore interpret this to mean that the “death” referred to was spiritual death (spiritual separation from God). This may be so, but in fact on that day they did begin to die physically, as well. The Hebrew is literally translated, “Dying, you shall die.”
There seems to be something much more fundamental here that comes right from the heart of God. Throughout the Bible we see God being merciful to sinners and giving them time to repent. On rare occasions, sin was judged with immediate death. For example, in Leviticus 10:1—2, two of Aaron’s sons offered “strange fire” to Yahweh that He had not authorised, “and fire came forth from the presence of the LORD and devoured them.” Ananias and Sapphira fell down dead at the words of the apostle Peter as a result of their deception in Acts 5:1 11. In the vast majority of cases, however (considering that everyone who has ever lived is a sinner), God is merciful toward sinners and gives them time to repent. Paul urged his readers not to take God’s kindness, forbearance, and patience for granted, as it was intended to lead them to repentance (Rom. 2:4). Peter went even further and said, “The Lord is not slow about His promise as some count slowness, but is forbearing toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance” (2 Pet. 3:9, emphasis added). In Revelation 6:10, the martyrs cry out to God asking how long until the Judgement comes, and they are told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been. Then in Revelation 10:6, the mighty angel standing on land and sea announces the dreaded words “There will be no more delay” (NIV). Judgement will be delayed no longer.
So, following this line of argument, we suggest that one reason why Adam and Eve did not die physically on the day that they sinned is that God began His plan of redemption by delaying the judgement to give them time to repent.
The next thing that God did was to allow Adam and Eve to experience some of the consequences of their actions – not enough to kill them, but just enough to give them reason to repent. This is called “the Curse,” and is outlined in Genesis 3:14—19). If God had not done this, and had allowed them to continue their idyllic life in the Garden, they would have continued in their rebellion, thinking that sin was of no consequence. The Curse made sure that the time during which God was waiting for them to repent would be filled with reminders of their fallen condition.
Some may think that the Curse is not a very “nice” idea, but those who understand the horror of sin and its inevitable consequences – eternal separation from God, who cannot look upon sin due to His holy nature – are not so inclined. One Psalmist who obviously understood this declared: “Before I was afflicted I went astray; but now I keep thy word. Thou art good and doest good; teach me thy statutes. . . . It is good for me that I was afflicted, that I might learn thy statutes” (Ps. 119:67—71). So, we suggest that in delaying the judgement, God gave them time to repent, and in imposing the Curse, He gave them reason to repent.
We are not told the exact mechanism of the Curse, but we can infer the essential elements of it. Hebrews 1:3 says that Jesus upholds the universe with His Word of power. We can imagine that in the original perfect creation, part of its perfection lay in its perfect design and construction, but an important part of its ongoing perfection must have been perfect upholding provided by the powerful Word of God. A post-Fall example would be the experience of Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego in the fiery furnace (Dan. 3). Because God was with them, they came through the fire without even the smell of burning upon them – not a single hair was singed! In a perfectly upheld universe, there would likewise be no injury, accidents, sickness or mutations.
In the resurrection of Jesus we see the perfect upholding in His glorified body. He had paid the penalty for sin, so He was no longer subject to the Curse, and the bones and sinews, heart, blood, flesh and skin were restored, renewed and glorified into the state that He enjoyed before the incarnation (John 17:5 – except now, of course, He had a glorified material body as well). We suggest that by withdrawing just a small amount of His upholding power, God has given mankind a small taste of what life without Him is like – injury, accidents, illness and mutations. Indeed, it is quite possible that in order for man to die, God had to withdraw some of His upholding power. So the Curse may in fact be a necessary consequence of the death penalty. Life without God altogether would be absolute hell, but life under the Curse works well most of the time, yet it is seasoned with just enough suffering to remind us of our fallen condition and our continuing need to repent and depend on God.
Some people may be shocked by the idea that God causes suffering. How can this be when the major part of Jesus ministry was devoted to the alleviation of suffering? This apparent paradox is easily resolved. While God may be the immediate cause (That is, He has arranged things so that we will suffer) He is not the ultimate cause. The ultimate cause of our suffering is sin – our own sin, and the sin of others. The reason that God causes us to suffer is that He loves us and wants to restore us to Himself eternally. God is not at all reticent about claiming responsibility for our suffering, so neither should we be reticent about attributing it to Him. When HE pronounced the Curse in Genesis 3:15—16, He said, “I will” twice, thus taking full responsibility for their resulting suffering. Job suffered greatly at the hands of the devil, yet he never attributed any of it to the devil, he attributed all of it to God – and God commended him for it (Job 42:7—8). In Exodus 4:11, God says, “Who makes [man] deaf or mute? Who gives him sight or makes him blind? Is it not I the Lord?” (NIV). Exodus 15:26; 21:13, and Isaiah 45:7 reaffirm this theme, and in Leviticus 26, Deuteronomy 28, and Amos 4:6—11 God links His imposition of suffering with His larger purpose of man’s repentance. Earthly suffering, in its extremes, can be horrific, beyond all imagining, yet the conclusion we come to here is that God would rather us suffer terrible things for a short time in His comforting presence (i.e., by faith), than to suffer eternally, separated from Him.
The next thing that God did, in His great plan of redemption, was to exile Adam and Eve from the Garden so that they would not eat from the tree of life and their bodies continue to live forever while their souls remained in alienation (Gen. 3:22—24). The result of this exile was that without the divine nourishment of the tree of life, their bodies began to deteriorate and eventually die. This, again, may not appear to be a very “nice” solution to the problem, but it highlights how horrendous sin is, and how awful its consequences. Death was designed by a loving Creator to bring sin and its appalling consequences to an end.
The final thing that God did, which lies right at the very heart of His plan of redemption, was to provide a substitute to die in our place (Isa. 53:4—6; 2 Cor. 5:21). We see the beginnings of this in the Garden. God covered Adam and Eve’s nakedness (a sight now corrupted by their guilt, and therefore a symbol of guilt) with “garments of Skin” which God Himself made (Gen. 3:21). The “Skin” referred to is animal skin, so at least one animal must have been slain to provide the covering. God did not need to kill an animal to clothe them – He could have woven linen garments using fibre from the flax plant. Why did God kill an animal?
Surely it was to illustrate, in the most graphic manner possible, the horrific consequences of sin. It was a visual aid to show Adam and Eve that the consequence of sin is death. This theme is richly developed in Exodus where daily animal sacrifice at the tabernacle was instituted as the formal acknowledgement that forgiveness of sin was an essential prerequisite for Israel’s enjoyment of their intimate personal relationship with god (Exod. 29:38—46.
While animal sacrifice could provide a “covering” for man’s sin (as the skin clothing did), it could never take away sin (Heb. 10:4). It was only meant to be a reminder of the terrible consequences of sin, and to be a symbol of the amazing love and compassion of their Saviour (Heb. 10:1). The real sacrifice was to be God Himself. “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life” (John 3:16) “God made Him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in Him we might become the righteousness of God” (2 Cor. 5:21; NIV). “Without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness” (Heb. 9:22). But Christ did not enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of animals – He entered by His own blood, shed on our behalf (Heb. 9:12). The innocent one died in the place of the guilty.
Now these things are very familiar to Christians. Too familiar perhaps. Let’s imagine an entirely different salvation scenario. Let’s imagine that Jesus arrived on earth in a spaceship (or perhaps a time machine) and died on a cross for the sins of the world. What would have been the outcome? Well, no one would have had a clue what He was doing. No one could possibly have ever understood the significance of it.
This illustrates the crucial importance of culture. To make sure that we understood what He was doing, God created a context within which Christ could carry out His work of atonement. God created a language, a people, a culture, a history, a sacrificial system, and a written scriptural tradition, so that we could understand who He was, where He came from, what He did, why He did it, and how we can benefit from it.
To accomplish all this, God chose a man, Abraham, sent him to the land He had chosen, and made him the father of a nation with all the characteristics listed above. The key promise to Abraham is Genesis 12:1—3; God would (a) bless him, (b) make him a blessing to others, and (c) through him all people on earth would be blessed. When Jesus came, born of Mary, as a descendant of Abraham, He grew up as Jew, in the context of the law of Moses and their divine national history.
When He then went on to fulfill God’s promise to Abraham, through fulfilling the requirements of the law of Moses (Matt. 5:17; Rom. 10:1—4; Gal; 3:21—29), we today can read about it and understand who He was, where He came from, what He did, why He did it and how we can benefit from it.
That is a further reason why scriptures were so important to Jesus, because they explained who He said He was and what He was doing. A critic of Christianity once said that we don’t really know what Jesus believed because He never wrote anything down, but we can see from the line of reasoning presented here that we know exactly what Jesus believed – He did not need to write it down because it was already written down in the Jewish Scriptures.
Now we are not suggesting that Moses understood all of this. However, by setting it in this context we can see how essential all the pieces are to the puzzle, especially the foundational pieces in Genesis. Genesis is the foundational history for the person and work of Christ. It is not meant to be poetry or wisdom or prophecy. It contains poetry ( a handful of lines only), wisdom and prophecy, but it is fundamentally a historical account of who Yahweh is and who the Hebrew people are. Moses would have understood the importance of this history for understanding his part in god’s plan – the giving of the Law at Mount Sinai. That, in turn, provides the foundation for everything else in the Bible. When Jesus said in John 5:46, “If you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote of Me” it was not just a throw-away line – He was there claiming to be God whom Moses wrote about, and He was affirming that the writings of Moses, beginning with Genesis, formed the foundation for His incarnation and atonement.
References
Williams, Alexander and Hartnett, John PH.D. 2005 "Dismantling The Big Bang". Published by Master Books AR