Dinosaur DNA?

Hi Burrawang, You have got me and many atheists wrong saying we ignore the evidence - the opposite is the case. It is those of faith that do that - remember the sedimentary strata.

Let's take a closer look at the evidence of dinosaur DNA. First of all there was no soft tissue found -your first wrong assumption. There is also much controversy over what biomolecules were inside the dinosaur bones. It is most possible it could be from the lineages of bacteria and other microorganisms. That has always been the pattern of fossilization. This is not the first time that religion has twisted the facts - there is no positive proof of what you claim and even if you was right, that would just mean there was another way of preserving DNA over tens of millions of years, that we have still to find. What you do is jump to the conclusion that it was done by some supernatural power, which you have no chance of proving? Can't you see how religion is stopping you from thinking? Could you go through life ignoring all the evidence that surrounds you - of course you couldn't, then why do you do this with the supernatural?

You think an afterlife is Heaven, but if you think of the mutations and their source - life is a one energy system, then everything comes from us. (Energy is self serving) Because you have stopped thinking you are slowing down the progress of a man-made Heaven. We have to harness this energy, not worship it. My anger at religion stems from the centuries of suppression endured because of an assumption without any thought attached. I anger at the thought of how far we would have come without this suppression.

You have to back up your claims with evidence, but this will never happen, because religion has stopped you from thinking. We are an intelligent species and to stop that intelligence from maturing would mean the end of intelligence. Please listen to logic.

Regards

I agree SMS those of religion have done a lot of good, but good can be done whether you are religious or atheist - the human spirit will always come to the fore.

I can't agree with you about two kinds of people - there is only one race and that is the human race.- one world, one race.

The one energy system would also explain the subconscious and why we sleep and why we dream - it's almost the complete picture of life.

Thank you for your thoughts SMS, but I have no fear of dying - dying is like living, it's the circle of life, I unlike you, don't understand the need to go on living after death. I much prefer living in a world I can try to improve, than wait for salvation in another. That to me is a shallow kind of escape, one that I reject completely. By improving our world, we might make some surprising new discoveries and perhaps our understanding will ease the need for a God.

Here are three theories to test observation. Two backed up by scientific fact.

1 All things are created by God, No demonstrable evidence, just faith. (The Bible is not demonstrable evidence.)

2 Empirical science with the premise that life began with a one celled life-form and mutated to the present state. This does not explain the supernatural element that seems to exist within evolution.

3 A one energy system that abides by empirical science and can explain evolution by connection - can explain most of the supernatural and can explain the balance in nature.

Best Regards SMS, I know you mean well.

Hello SMS, I don't believe all people including yourself are bad, my objection is to the damage done by religion in any form - it destroys individuals, families , countries and influences cruelty around the world. OK it does some good, but you don't need religion to do good. This is not a personnel attack on you and others of faith.

With respect, Burrawang, you don't seem to be familiar with Einstein's theory of relativity, mass is energy. It is not just me wiggling my thoughts willy nilly, I ask you to think of what everything is made of and then you will understand. As for your last request, it reminds me of Pascal's Wager. I can't live my life bowing down to energy - energy is not to be worshipped, it is to be nurtured and used for our benefit. How do you know what you are missing if you don't embrace the truth - you might be pleasantly surprised.

I understand your devotion to faith, but believe me, faith can so easily lead you down the wrong path.

Keep well SMS, Burrawang

You are wrong, energy is based on empirical science - the total energy of a system, which includes the sum of kinetic energies, is proportional to its potential energy function. This is the reason that all life has not reached the same level of intelligence, if this happened, intelligent life could not exist. It is the pattern of energy that keeps the universe and all within it from collapsing altogether. 2nd law of thermodynamics dictates entropy of an isolated system can never decrease, but this does not mean it cannot change. The fact is that mutations are part of this energy and are acting in accordance with the laws of physics, which help to keep a balance in nature. You have got to stop looking at the diversity of life, it is an isolated energy system that is proportional to its function.

Sorry I can't agree, but take care.

Thank you Burrawang, I did manage to get on to it eventually, but it kept freezing until finally it came to a complete standstill. I had to shut down and restart. However I did hear enough to make me hesitate before resuming. If you start with the wrong premise, the rest of what you try to illustrate will also be wrong, let me explain. The scale of evolution as described is wrong if you look at it as a development of species - it's a development of intelligence or energy. Intelligence is energy of the highest quality and needs the room to expand. Room as in energy and not space. The dinosaur's demise is questionable, but its reign of terror is quite imaginable. If intelligence was the premise, then the demise of the dinosaur was inevitable and we see this decline carrying on even after the dinosaur's decline.

Then followed Science = evolution. Religion also = evolution. The reason there are thousands of different religions is because of the differences with intellect; that is how an intelligent species react to one another; it gives purpose. This is energy being used in the same way that evolution works. Perhaps one day we will come to realise this and the sooner the better. The lady narrator thinks that religion is evidence and evolution is wrong - I have mentioned before that mass + energy = 0 and evolution is mass and mass is energy. What she is really saying, but hasn't got a clue, is that energy is false. How can energy be false? Can you see the futility of trying to explain when you start with the wrong premise?

The micro and macro evolution seems to complicate the reasoning of those who start with the wrong premise and no wonder. Instead of saying they don't know, so God must have done it, why don't they say, I don't know so I am going to find out? I will help them - what they are considering is a one energy system with the same pattern as all energy systems - being a biological energy does not complicate the pattern.

Thanks again Burrawang, I did find it interesting.

I might try to see the rest of it later.

Thank you Burrawang. I have tried, but I could not engage, so I only have what you described in your letter.

1st point is genetic entropy. If life is a one energy system and all the evidence suggests this, then the entropy of an isolated system can never decrease, but it can become stable in parts. ( Thermodynamic - Equilibrium) Fact!

2nd point is I am not a convert of Dawkins or Darwin when distinguishing the pattern of evolution. It is not random, it is by design, but a natural design of that produced by energy. There is no need for a God. The deterioration your scientists see in the genome is the pattern set by a universal code of physics. Evolution = energy; energy cannot be false and so evolution cannot be false. I am not moving the goal posts, I am doing what science does, trying to be logical. I can demonstrate energy, but religion cannot demonstrate God. Mass + energy = 0.

This is the pattern of energy. A star converts hydrogen into helium, processing a nuclear pressure that stops the star from collapsing under the force of gravity. The fluctuations are necessary for stability and the same pattern applies to any one energy system, even to one individual human being - we are individual one energy systems. The deterioration that your scientists see is a normal process and doesn't affect the pattern of energy, in fact, it is the other way around -it complements it.

Sorry I can't agree, but take care.

Hello ekrause1406

No I didn't watch it, the time it was aired was too early. I am now turned 87 and need my beauty sleep more than ever. DNA can be traced to the beginning of all life and not just Adam and Eve. When you mention harmful mutations - what mutations are you thinking of? Individual mutations can be harmful, but there has never been a harmful mutated species. It's called a balance in nature. Stars are one energy systems and so are galaxies, black holes, solar systems, a species and also an individual within that species. No system can work oblivious of the function of that system and exceed its limit. Evolution, which evidence is telling us, is a one energy system, will explain the alleles and also the eukaryotic cells are instructed by a natural source to keep the balance and also determines the heterozygous outcome. The genome is subjective to the objective and so is everything else. The heterozygous individuals you mention as a possible reason for diversity is partly correct, but the reason for the diversity springs from a source we have yet to discover. The source comes from way back, before Adam and Eve were invented. By using this as an explanation for diversity is implying it was done by some divine power; that's an excuse when you don't know. 'Don't know' is not in my vocabulary. 'I don't know, so I will try to find the answer.' is what I use. If there is a problem, then there as to be an answer, the one justifies the other. By an answer, I mean a demonstrable one. Can you imagine where we would be if that attitude was adhered to by science - we would still be living in caves.

And finally ekrause, if we were omniscient like your God, we would have nothing to live for, knowing everything, is a curse. This is the reason there is no God and no Heaven, both would be a curse unto themselves. If all life reached the same level of intellect that too would be a curse - a one energy system stops that from happening. Consider yourself, you are a one energy system - if all life reached the same level of intelligence, what would there be to do?

Keep well ekrause. -

I know how much your faith means to you, but if what you believe is not true then you are wasting what could be a very much more constructive life.

I had a dream in June 2012 which I had recorded (I am able to send a copy to you if ever I master the technique) I find new technology demanding at the age of 87. The dream was of a snow fall in midsummer and I even predicted the day it would happen - which proves we are connected to the elements. Mass is energy, so mass + energy = 0. We are connected to everything and everyone. There was a four inches fall of snow, and the temperature at the time was in the twenties. I predicted this nine days before it happened. All the evidence points to the first life-form being a dormant one and to survive that life would have had a selective instinct which connected to the elements. (Today we see these selective instincts in migration and hibernation; which are gathered collectively) My dream points not to the future, but to the present; the remnants that allowed life to sustain on its way along the evolutionary path, are still there. If you are wondering why we all don't have these dreams, the answer is we do. In our conscious world we can see and measure ability, but in the subconscious world we can't see or measure ability. I guess I got lucky.

Ghosts also belong to the energy that drives evolution - the total energy of a system, which includes the sum of kinetic energies is proportional to its potential energy function. Is evolution just a one energy system with all its kinetic energies doing what energy does?

Energy is not always stable, its fluctuation is needed to keep its balance; we see this in a normal star which has hydrogen forming into helium allowing its nuclear pressure to keep it stable against the forces of gravity, but occasionally it has to send out solar flares which help its stability. If life is a one energy system then ghosts are the result of its stability, (solar flares) they are pockets of energy and the reason we see them as ghosts is because we are a biological energy system - the pattern of energy is universal.

You mention the genome and the magical powers that rule, but what you are not seeing is a one energy system that is dictated to by its own needs -there is no need for a God.

It is so easy to mistake a trick of nature and call it supernatural, but that gets us nowhere, only going backwards. I think its time we should start to move forward.

There are 210 dreams in the Bible and perhaps you can now understand why they were thought to be the words of God?

Regards

Hello burrawang, good to hear from you. Thank you for your recommended look into evolution, but even from the introduction I noticed one big error - DNA mutations are not speeding up to the extent that it cannot explain the evolution of life. We are a biological species driven by an electrically charged energy system. The speed of the mutations may occur due to its necessity at a specific time. You can't get away with directing today's speeds with that of billions of years of mutations. We are more intelligent today which means the electrical force correlating with the biological tendencies determine the speed.

More intelligence, more speed. Religion has been the main cause for slowing down mutations, by suppressing intelligence.

Hope you are keeping well.

If it was true, which I doubt, it still doesn't prove the existence of God - it just means science got it wrong. Jay Wile is referring to the work of Mary H Schweitzer and her colleagues. She also made the same claims in 1993, which was disputed when the soft tissue was found to be the same as in frogs, chickens, newts and many other animals. Her 'office' on the site was discovered to be like a holy shrine of worship, which didn't do much to help her claim. Can you really expect anyone to take her word seriously?

Religion is to blame for many misleading principles and this debate is an example of this.

I have written twice to Dr Wile and each time my letters have disappeared. You can make anything true in your own mind if you dismiss all that which attacks your ideas. You can make fairies true, or dragons and Harry Potter, if you dismiss all the evidence that disputes it.

You mention Noah's flood and I have already discussed this with the same results; you don't associate things to God just because you have no other explanation, unless you can demonstrate it. The sedimentary strata found on Earth is also found on Mars and is attributed to water and erosion, there is no need for a God. I don't believe there is any mention in the Bible about the flood on Mars? When the Bible was written, they didn't know about Mars, all they knew was that heaven was somewhere up there.

I would also be fascinated by the numerous discoveries which would doubtless be made from the sequencing of a dinosaur genome! Although some definitely consider this impossible, I think I will maintain some hope and curiosity. :)

Hello ekrause, Biological energy is different from the universal energy, in that it is self serving. The changes you mention would not be observed in this complexity of life. All is observed as reality until we discover the secrets of our biggest mystery - the subconscious, then all reality will be established. Think about the dinosaur - did it disappear to allow that energy to develop? Was the reason that the primates stopped evolving to reach the same level of intelligence, was because intelligence had been reached? Don't they serve a better purpose to an intelligent life, staying the way they are? Don't think of it as different species, but as energy - one energy. (Would you put a 3amp plug into a 13 amp socket?)

Do humans have an effect on this energy? Of course we do, but we cannot destroy this energy. This is the beauty of self serving energy or any other energy; it can change its form, but can never be eradicated. If man makes a mistake, nature (energy) will put it right. (I remind you of the wrong plug for the wrong socket. ) We can only be guided by the pattern that energy dictates.

In lake Malawi there are 650 different types of fish and all are proved to come from one ancestor. They are all different in colour and the way they give birth. Science puts this down to different food means different species, but if these fish were given a better choice of survival, wouldn't it have been more satisfying for them not to mutate? Just one species being able to eat the different foods regardless (the same has us) would have been a far more logical way for survival, that is until you consider the pattern of energy. (The only sensible explanation is the fluctuation of energy,) A divine influence would have been a poor excuse also, because the logic is at fault.

When considering brain activity; think quantum mechanics - the energy of each proton is proportional to its frequency value, for all possible functions. It has been scientifically proved that protons can appear from nothing. (Check Stephen Hawking.)

I am not a scientist and am at a loss when trying to explain in scientific terms, but some times observation brings forth the truth - it must have been that way at the beginning, when man first started to think. It was only when man stopped thinking, did we start going forth blindly.

Best regards.

Wow! Exciting; what are the next discoveries going to be? Could this be the tip of the ice-burgh; are there many more finds yet to come? Thanks for this Jonathan, it has made my day.

Not too underestimate this find, which is still in its investigation period, but it may add to that which I have been trying to find an answer - what caused the demise of the dinosaur?

Science has put forward many theories, but nothing substantial as yet. (I don't agree with any scientific theory that has been put forward so far.)

Thanks again, this is brilliant if proved to be true.

Best wishes.

Hello Jonathan, I feel I have to explain why I think the find of Dr Wile's, if genuine, would mean so much to me.

I have through research reached my own conclusion as to the demise of the dinosaur; though difficult to explain, I shall give it a go.

The total energy of a system includes the sum of kinetic energies. The potential energy function corresponds to the situation.

13.8 billion years ago, our world was this one energy system. 3.8 billion years ago that energy began to change its form and a biological energy was forwarded; which became a kinetic part of its absolute. ( Earth. ) This biological energy system was driven by the same force as all energy and was chained to the same laws of nature. Its form lasted for a time of more changes and to survive its continuing formation, it had to fluctuate; this enabled its energy to go on changing. If it was not allowed to do this, then like all energy, it would implode on itself. This applies to all energy, whether biological or not. Without this fluctuation, intelligent life could not have begun.

Though science tries to explain the demise of the dinosaur, it struggles to get a conclusive decision. This is because no plausible reason has so far been forthcoming. Religion puts it down to a divine influence, but science will go on hacking and will do so until it finds an answer.

Take the demise of the dinosaur and look at it in another way - if life is evolving as a one energy system, then that energy has to be able to change to survive - I am not referring to life itself, I am referring to the energy that supports life. The dinosaur's reign of terror would have left the more vulnerable life-forms searching for ways to survive and this would have meant the weaker species would become more intelligent because they had more purpose. Dendrites would be picking up more information from the neighbouring neurons in the brains of the vulnerable, than they would in the brain of the dinosaur. (This is energy, changing its form to survive.) Due to this change in energy, life began to scale down, allowing intelligence too flourish. This progress has gone on until the present time and brought with it the diversity of life we see today. The dinosaur's reign and indeed the scaling down in size, could be conceived as one energy changing its form to suit that one energy's needs. Look at the diversity of life as one energy, fluctuating to keep it from imploding; if all life reached the same level of intelligence, (The same level of energy,) life would implode. There would be no negative charge to balance the proportional function that energy is designed to conform with. Biological energy, has to follow the same rules. Einstein's theory of relativity is relevant to all energy. (Matter is energy.) In this way, the positive and the negative add up to zero. It is another law of nature and evolution must conform too.

I have mentioned before about our positive and negative emotions, which compliment each other; without this compromise, they would not add up to zero and life as we know it could not have existed.

Physicist, Richard Feynman's one electron theory failed because there was an unequal amount of electrons and positrons, but he was referring to the universe and all it contained. Entropy in the universe is fundamental when considering the activity of Black Holes, which is only part of what's going on. This is the universe settling down. Evolution is a contained kinetic energy within that universe and so the balance in that kinetic energy must be evenly balanced and when something comes along to upset that balance, nature quickly puts it right. (Energy adjusting itself.) EVOLUTION.

Darwin's theory of natural selection was referencing the selection of an individual in a species; the one energy system is for the entire species. It keeps the same pattern and keeps the level of energy needed for life to survive. (The balance in nature.)

You might find this confusing, but it is the best I can do.

Best wishes.

Thank you for sharing, @windar12q! I would be curious to hear if @MDS has any thoughts...