I came across this excerpt from mathematician Blaise Pascal's book Pensees ("Thoughts" in French). He wrote the argument to show that even though rational evidence does not prove whether or not God exists, one must still choose to believe. His reasoning goes like this: If God exists and you believe in Him the benefits are infinite, but if He doesn't exist and you believe there is nothing lost. I copied it in blue below. What do you think?
"God is, or He is not." But to which side shall we incline? Reason can decide nothing here. There is an infinite chaos which separated us. A game is being played at the extremity of this infinite distance where heads or tails will turn up. What will you wager? According to reason, you can do neither the one thing nor the other; according to reason, you can defend neither of the propositions.
Do not, then, reprove for error those who have made a choice; for you know nothing about it. "No, but I blame them for having made, not this choice, but a choice; for again both he who chooses heads and he who chooses tails are equally at fault, they are both in the wrong. The true course is not to wager at all."
Yes; but you must wager. It is not optional. You are embarked. Which will you choose then? Let us see. Since you must choose, let us see which interests you least. You have two things to lose, the true and the good; and two things to stake, your reason and your will, your knowledge and your happiness; and your nature has two things to shun, error and misery. Your reason is no more shocked in choosing one rather than the other, since you must of necessity choose. This is one point settled. But your happiness? Let us weigh the gain and the loss in wagering that God is. Let us estimate these two chances. If you gain, you gain all; if you lose, you lose nothing. Wager, then, without hesitation that He is.
"That is very fine. Yes, I must wager; but I may perhaps wager too much." Let us see. Since there is an equal risk of gain and of loss, if you had only to gain two lives, instead of one, you might still wager. But if there were three lives to gain, you would have to play (since you are under the necessity of playing), and you would be imprudent, when you are forced to play, not to chance your life to gain three at a game where there is an equal risk of loss and gain. But there is an eternity of life and happiness. And this being so, if there were an infinity of chances, of which one only would be for you, you would still be right in wagering one to win two, and you would act stupidly, being obliged to play, by refusing to stake one life against three at a game in which out of an infinity of chances there is one for you, if there were an infinity of an infinitely happy life to gain. But there is here an infinity of an infinitely happy life to gain, a chance of gain against a finite number of chances of loss, and what you stake is finite."
Hello ekrause, you are proposing Pascal's Wager; which has been ridiculed over and over again for its lack of logic. To work out the future of mankind on the toss of a coin says it all - if it comes down on the wrong side, you will forever live your life in the wrong way, but go on thinking it is the right way. This is what religion has done and it has been a real hard struggle trying to get back on the straight and narrow, but now the signs are good and religion is on the decline.
I don't rely on the toss of a coin either way, I rely on evidence to back up my persuasion; this way I know I am more near the right track than foolishly deciding on the results of a spinning coin.
Religion has cocooned those of faith in a false comfort zone, which is anything other than comfortable. This is the reason for so much unrest in the world and that will stay the case until the truth is established.
Like Pascal, we wrestle with the thought of having nothing to live for if we don't believe - how does he or those of religious domination know this? You will only find the truth by seeking the truth and you might find that things are even better when the truth is revealed.
The human race is in its infancy period and look at our accomplishments, what will our accomplishments be during our adolescence and maturity? The mind boggles. Oh ye of little faith, for that is what religion is - little faith, but faith built on demonstrable evidence is a much stronger one.
Keep well ekrause
Hello winda12q! What I see as one of the key premises of the Wager is the idea that the non-existence (or existence) of God cannot be proven by rational evidence. Though we both have evidence to support our views we come to very different conclusions because of how we interpret that evidence. This is why evidence alone cannot determine what we decide to believe about God.
When Pascal says that we have infinite gains if God exists and we believe in Him, he refers to the benefits of eternal life and a relationship with God. However the only "gains" you can earn by not believing in God are having fewer religious rules to follow in this lifetime; and if God exists and you don't believe then you face infinite losses (I don't mean that in a mean way, but it's the responsible thing to give warning). Pascal does not make his wager on the toss of a coin. He does so by choosing the option most likely to have a beneficial outcome.
By the way, I noticed your last line of your post. I don't know if the reference was intentional but the phrase "ye of little faith" is from Matthew 8:26, when Jesus was admonishing His disciples for their lack of trust in Him. Jesus demonstrated that He was worthy of trust when He stopped the storm that threatened to drown them. Another passage that came to mind: Matthew 17:20. "Truly I tell you, if you have faith through size of a mustard seed you will be able to say to this mountain 'move from here to there' and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you." It turns out a little faith is quite powerful. That has been my experience. The times I am weakest are the times I forget to trust in God. I need Him, no question about it.
Have a great evening !
Hello ekrause1406,
On your first point 'beneficial outcome' how can you have a beneficial outcome if you are building the foundations on guesswork? You are also missing the point; if you never have 'Faith' in life itself, how do you know you have chosen the right path? It's life's path that might have a more beneficial outcome than you can ever dream, and the tragedy is, you will never experience it. Remember what I said about starting off on the wrong path and then you are stuck with it. Consider the evidence I've got to what you claim is your evidence; which no one has so far presented, as far as I know. Evidence has to be demonstrated and not just claimed. Life can be demonstrated, so why ignore life and its challenges for something that has no objective challenge other than to save one's self. Pascal and yourself are wrong - you cannot have evidence of something that doesn't exist, the only way is to invent something and that is not evidence. Because it satisfies your longing, is not proof that it is true.
You mention that by knowing God, we can have religious rules to live by; ekrause, have you read all of these rules, or are you just ignoring most of them? I have my own moral compass that comes from our tribal heritage and it gives me a far higher standard than that laid down by some religions, including yours. If you cleared your mind away from the Ten Commandments just for a minute, you would realise that you are still the same person and still as moral, if not more. You don't need a God to decide what your moral compass is.
My last line was intentional 'ye of little faith' was referring to religion and its doctrine, leading people away from the truth and the mind boggling future for mankind. Life if you take the time to study it, will give you far more satisfaction, along with hope for the future of our species. We can do with less religious unrest, which will allow a more productive life, life that is being lost to a mythological God that belongs in the mythological stories along with all the other Gods. These are the Gods that entertain and give colour, but are better kept in a book and not in our lives. If God interacts with our everyday life, then it should be demonstrable and a Nobel Prise awaits for those who can do this. Any bets that no one will ever collect?
Best wishes ekrause.
Greetings,
I'm aware that Pascal's Wager is widely criticized, but I will confess that I'm not entirely clear as to why. Would you mind explaining the reasoning that has led many to criticize this argument?
Thanks!
Hello Jonathan,
Pascal's Wager is illogical. To assume what you want and pretend that it is true, really defies all logic. What do you gain other than an illusion? Can you imagine what life would be like if all the world followed Pascal's prescriptive view of making your own reality?
I'm afraid Jonathan, because religion has no evidence to back it, puts that type of faith in the same category. It's the diversity in life that feeds an intelligent species - Pascal and religion, go against everything that nature is telling us.
Stay well.
Hello windar12q. You are right in what you said, that life can be demonstrated. So I have taken time to think about what my life recently demonstrates. This morning I spoke at the worship service we share online as a school. It was my first time ever doing something like that and I will admit I wasn't very prepared; I just had some notes on things I wanted to talk about. I was so nervous I barely made it through my speaking time, but somehow I was able to do it. I was following encouragement that I was given when my teacher was asking for speaking volunteers: "don't be stopped by a desire to be comfortable."
The reason I had the courage to do this, though, was because I knew that if I failed completely God would still love me (honestly, that's the reason). A passage that helped me realize this was Galatians 3:1-8. Sometimes doing something that God calls me to do means stepping out of my comfort zone. If that isn't a challenge I don't know what is, but God has taken on this challenge. I am glad that I have God helping me, because what is at stake is not just myself; God is equipping me to serve the people around me and share His love.
Good night.
Hello ekrause,
We share the same fear. After my wife of over 50years died, it left me with a mountain to climb. I had never written anything in all my decades of living and to start to write was a big challenge. I joined a writer's group to gain some knowledge, but this led to also writing poetry and occasionally we would go public; sometimes this meant reading out loud to quite a large crowd. In my eighties and having no oratory skills, it was quite daunting at times, but I did finally get over it. Being an atheist I had no help from God. The reason I mention this is to point out that the inspiration comes from within and not from without. You call it God and I call it productive energy - a way that stops us from falling. Without this energy, life would fail, because no one would take a chance. Life depends on this biological energy; it is called evolution.
This still leaves a lot of people who freeze and will never perform; why doesn't God help them?
I have scientific proof backing up what I say and you don't, you only have faith. Can you see why I could not follow religion, it would fill me with false hope, but you prefer Pascal's Wager to that which can be proved and not just plucked out of thin air?
If that suits your life style, I have no qualms about that - to each, his own.
Regards
Good evening, windar12q!
I didn't know you were also a public speaker. Have you been able to read any of your poems recently?
I don't really know how to explain how I know my inspiration was from God. It is something that is such a unique experience that it's hard to put into words for someone who hasn't experienced it. This passage from Psalm 139 shows a bit of what it feels like to be known and loved by God in this way.
1 You have searched me, Lord, and you know me. 2 You know when I sit and when I rise; you perceive my thoughts from afar. 3 You discern my going out and my lying down; you are familiar with all my ways. 4 Before a word is on my tongue you, Lord, know it completely. 5 You hem me in behind and before, and you lay your hand upon me. 6 Such knowledge is too wonderful for me, too lofty for me to attain.
7 Where can I go from your Spirit? Where can I flee from your presence? 8 If I go up to the heavens, you are there; if I make my bed in the depths, you are there. 9 If I rise on the wings of the dawn, if I settle on the far side of the sea, 10 even there your hand will guide me, your right hand will hold me fast. 11 If I say, “Surely the darkness will hide me and the light become night around me,” 12 even the darkness will not be dark to you; the night will shine like the day, for darkness is as light to you.
13 For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother’s womb. 14 I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well. 15 My frame was not hidden from you when I was made in the secret place, when I was woven together in the depths of the earth. 16 Your eyes saw my unformed body; all the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be. 17 How precious to me are your thoughts,[a] God! How vast is the sum of them! 18 Were I to count them, they would outnumber the grains of sand— when I awake, I am still with you.
Psalm 139: 1-18
I would also suggest reading 1 Corinthians 1:18-31. This passage has meant a lot to me as well.
I wouldn't say I am a public speaker; reciting poetry is not the same as making a speech.
Keep well ekrause.