Aug 10

What is and what isn't?


What is and what isn't? Looking at religion and evolution, will their disputes go on forever, will we ever find a compromise? Let's give it a go.

Dr Donald Hoffman is a cognitive scientist at The University of California. He discovered while researching the jewel beetle of Australia, that all life cannot see accurately.

The jewel beetle had been successfully breeding for nearly two million years giving science the idea that seeing accurately was a key to their success, Only the male beetle can fly, this enables him to spot the female on the ground - the female is brown, shiny and dimpled. Then came the jolly swagman and after drinking his beer he would throw his empties into the Outback Over a period of time the amount of bottles began to increase - the bottles were brown, shiny and dimpled; the poor male beetle couldn't tell the difference between a bottle and a female and so began the species decline. Taking this further; if all life cannot see accurately and this is beneficial to life; then what seems like a handicap is anything but.

To explain how this works, let's imagine two worlds and to simplify, I shall call them two jigsaws. Jigsaw No 1 is inhabited by a species that can see accurately; seeing accurately gives little or no constructive purpose. The jigsaw is completed in no time, giving the species nowhere to go which in time will lead to its demise. This appears a contradiction in terms, because the jewel beetle was becoming extinct and it could not see accurately. There has to be another reason why not seeing accurately was disastrous for the beetle and beneficial to us and to all life. I'll explain as I go on.

Jigsaw No2 is inhabited by a species that cannot see accurately; this life struggles, but its struggle gives constructive purpose, which is passed down to the individuals of that species and feeds its intelligence. This however leads to one big problem; if all life is in the same boat, (not seeing accurately) which feeds its intelligence, then why hasn't all life reached the same level of intelligence? Example; the jewel beetle, why hadn't it evolved to a higher standard, this would have helped it to survive? After much deliberation, I can only come to one conclusion - I can dismiss the probability of some divine interference, because that would have put me back on jigsaw No1 and on my way to extinction with no constructive purpose. The God of the Gaps would only stall the truth. This leaves me with just one choice - all life must be connected and working as a one energy system. Life started as one and must still be evolving as one, to the same energy pattern.

If we compare evolutionary progress to the patterns of the Cosmos and connect life as one system of energy, we have a symmetry that is hard to deny. Mass times space = 0, does that make intelligence times variety = 0. If we take mass as our grouped intelligence, then take the variety of lesser intelligence that make up for all the rest of life and call it space; the comparison between dark matter and the 'stability' of the universe and the 'stability' of life under evolution is too close to the mark to ignore. If all life had reached the same level, this would have been too much for the species to gather the food (variety) that is needed to feed intelligence.

Some have trouble with this equation; 'mass times space = 0.'and the best way is to use the description aired by the late Stephen Hawking, which is imagine digging a hole, and with the dirt from the hole you can build a hill, but you are still left with the hole. When comparing it with 'mass times space = 0; the hill is the planets and stars; space is the hole.

The Monarch butterfly migrates in its millions from North America to Central Mexico; a journey of 2,500 miles. It goes through three generations on its migration, but still manages the journey. The magnetic pull of the earth is suspected to have a lot to do with this, but the most important thing is; they are all connected for their survival. All life is subjected to the same laws of nature, but depending on the variety of the species, their survival instinct will vary. An intelligent species can adapt to any climate and therefore its needs are different. An intelligent life (apart from the obvious) depends on purpose; purpose is the food on which it feeds. No purpose, no you and me; by that I mean constructive purpose.

Going back to when life first began; was it by chance that a mutation happened, or have we not been seeing accurately? Did the mutation happen because that is what would serve its lineage or was it to produce its food? (Purpose.) Was this connection, this one energy pattern just serving itself with either, or was it serving itself with both? Surely the latter would be more beneficial to an intelligent species? In fact, it would be imperative, because just serving lineage would not create much excitement and certainly no variety. Variety is the spice of life. The one complements the other - lineage and variety.

The protozoan is a mystery to science in that it appears to have no common evolutionary history. It has a few animal characteristics, like being able to swim, but only relying on a membrane for its functions. It's as if its importance is irrelevant in the in the evolving of life; how can this be, surely nature doesn't produce willy - nilly? Are we seeing accurately when looking at the protozoan and its functions? If we consider the one energy system, then the protozoan is part of that one energy pattern and is fulfilling its place in that one energy. The protozoan could not exist and function if it was isolated; which it isn't; it is part of a communal system that works within the bigger structure called evolution. Once we understand this, the mystery of why it survives and its purpose will be finally laid to rest. This will include all life that defies nomination.

I will leave it there for the moment and hope it has got some of you thinking. Later I would like to explore more of the 'supernatural' such as 'ghosts' and 'dreams of the future' with the hope of modifying.



Before I go on to the aspects of the supernatural, I think perhaps this connection that all life has is of the most importance, so I will continue with the evidence.

Physicist Richard Feynman in the 1940s tried to bring in a theory that would explain this connection, it was call 'The one electron theory'. By bringing in a fourth dimension he was going to describe a theory of only one electron that governs the universe and of course life itself. His theory was dismissed due to the imbalance of electrons and positrons - but does his theory still have some benefits?

With the advent of quantum entanglement our concepts of what is real are changing. Quantum entanglement brings forth the kind of dreams we only expected to happen in the pages of science fiction. It is a place of many mysteries; a world where protons can appear from nothing and quantum particles can react to one another over any distance; acting as one. Though this is not quite the same thing that Feynman envisaged, it does however have the resemblance of what he was predicting. His 'One electron theory' and quantum particles reacting over any distance does begin too match with his idea of one connection. If we take the idea that life is evolving as one contained energy, then the likelihood of the quantum particles reacting from the same event becomes more practical, because the one energy means we are all part of that same event. The universe is the absolute energy system, but within that universe is a conundrum of of systems with kinetic energy striving for results; all obeying the same laws of nature. This also includes evolution.

There are tens of thousands of religions in the world and toss into the mix the atheists, agnostics etc; are they acting as thousands of individual participants, or are they acting as a one energy system? They give the illusion of being segregated, but the fact is, they are subjected to the variants of intelligence that are needed to sustain an intelligent species. Intelligence demands this order to which our species must adhere, or there would be no intelligent life. If, there was one religion ruling the world with its opposed views of reality, then that would destroy purpose. Like I said before, constructive purpose is the food of life. Life would be denied part of the life-line needed for its survival. Looking at religion the same way as looking in from outside of the universe to get some clarity; then looking in from outside the universe makes it more obvious that religions are striving for clarification also. All are obeying the laws set down by nature. All are doing what is dictated to them by evolution. It's only by understanding the natural way of things will a problem ever be solved.

I will finish by giving an explanation to one of the unsolved mysteries of the supernatural; let's examine what are known as 'Dreams of the Future.' Our consciousness works on average 16/7, our subconsciousness works 24/7. Which of these two seem the most important in the greater scheme of things? Because of the importance of the subconscious let's take it a bit further. There are dreams that give the illusion of seeing into the future, but magicians can do the same thing and it is because we cannot see accurately. Here are two justified dreams that will explain the connection that life needs to evolve in the way it does.

Abraham Lincoln dreamed of his death three days before it happened. This appears to be fortelling the future, but if we connect it to the perpetrator planning the atrocity three days before, then it makes more sense. Supernatural stops us from thinking. The second dream was dreamed by a lady named Helen Duncan; in 1944, she dreamed of a ship sinking, but dreamt of it has the vessel went down. This was war time and Helen was spreading the news of what she had dreamed. The Admiralty wanted this news to be kept quiet because the enemy were still looking for it and that is how they wanted it to remain. Poor Helen was tried for witchcraft and sentenced to 9 months in prison. This was done to fool the enemy. It was the last ever witchcraft trial in England. If you take the one energy system that explains the design in nature, then the same pattern appears in our subconscious world that is accepted naturally in our conscious one. If we decide to buy something today, then we are matching Helen, if we think of buying something next week, then we are matching Abe's. The two dreams give the illusion of individual dreams, but that is not the case, they both originate from the one energy. We do not experience the future. We cannot see or measure ability in the subconscious; it is no wonder how the supernatural took hold in the ancient world of superstition.

Ghosts are the most exciting thing I have ever researched and though I don't know all the answers, they hold the promise of things that will explode your mind.

Hello again, @windar12q! Please help me to understand your position a bit better.


First, what exactly do you mean when you say "seeing accurately?" How would you define it?


Do you think that humans see accurately? If not, how is it possible to have any certain knowledge? Alternatively, are your views similar to the philosophical idea known as philosophical scepticism (that is, the belief that it really isn't possible to have certain knowledge [i.e: "there's always the possibility that life is a giant computer simulation])? If I am completely misunderstanding you (which is a distinct possibility ;) ), feel free to correct me!


Concerning the Abraham Lincoln story, I had heard that he had a dream that he often had before significant developments in the war occurred (the dream had something to do with a boat, I thought) soon before he was assassinated. At any rate, that would seem (to me, at least) to be different from having a dream specifically about his death. Anyway, that would be my 2 cents worth.


I look forward to hearing your thoughts!

Hi, Your mistake is you are 'seeing accurately' with a view of not gaining knowledge, the opposite is the case. With respect this is a good example of not seeing accurately. It's the struggle that this impediment creates that gives us the knowledge.

On your other point, I don't think there is a limit to our knowledge, everything is open to scrutiny. My only opposition is that which stops the advance of knowledge.

It is irrelevant to distinguish between dreams because the format still stands. I would like to mention that I had one of these dreams in 2012 which was recorded by Anthony Peake. I not only mentioned the event, but I knew the day it would happen. That's a first.

It's good to get your reaction.


Load more replies
Aug 12Edited: Aug 12

Hello Johnathan, You can describe 'not seeing accurately' as not thinking accurately too. In my post I describe how a conglomerate of atheists and religions give the illusion of individual participants when really they are acting as one. Let me try to explain the variety of life which in the greater scheme of things is supplying the different levels of intellect that an intelligent species needs to survive. Without these different levels there would be no constructive purpose. By the way the answer to 'not seeing accurately' is literal.

These dreams go on happening in the same way as they always have, so the format I described if correct, cannot change either. Abe's dream was not a prophecy, all he was doing was receiving the thoughts of the perpetrator of the assassination as he was planning it three days before committing the crime. I think the level of emotions determine the outcome.

In our conscious world we are blessed with different levels of ability, both physical and academic. The subconscious must also follow the same laws if ability exists there and all being on different levels of ability hides this , which makes it almost impossible to research. It is also the reason most dreams don't make any sense, but this too is just an illusion - we are not seeing accurately.

I understand how hard it is to accept something that goes against everything you have ever known, but believe me, there is a world of wonder out there that is beckoning if only we can open our eyes to see. I have trouble sleeping at night, not because I am troubled, but because my mind won't let me rest. I mean it in a good way and that is at the ripe old age of 85.

Let me try and explain the variety in life which you attribute to some divine power.

When a star reaches a proportion that cannot sustain its volume, then gravity causes it to implode. This creates a black hole, and in reality what is taking place is the settling of the universe - eventually the black hole will disappear and all will be stable. The black hole is an energy within the absolute energy we call the universe and being universal, energy has to obey the same laws whether it is a star that's imploded or a life that as begun as one. That too must keep from imploding, because like the star it is one mass of energy. This is what I mean when describing the variety in life, it is an energy that has to conform. If all life reached the same level of intelligence it would, like the star, implode. (By that I mean it would become extinct.) The variety is guided by these universal laws whether its biological or geological and not by some divine intervention. We can't go back to when life first started, but lets go back to when the virus was around which is about far enough for this demonstration. The virus lives in a dormant state until attaching to something that lives; only then can it go about doing that which it was gifted to do. This creates a problem - there was no life around to serve its purpose, it could only rely on this energy to supply this. You may ask why is the virus still around today, why hasn't it evolved? The simple reason is, the virus can withstand extreme heat and extreme cold; it can survive even in a vacuum; it is indestructible. If life for some reason came to an end then the survival of the virus would ensure that life could begin again. This is the energy doing what energy does; it can change its form, but it cannot be eradicated. I know this sounds complicated, but it does explain the variety that you mention. My only advice is to look at life as one energy and not pockets of energy, by that I mean don't look at it as different species, but as one. Thanks for the help with editing.



@windar12q, thank you for the further clarification! So, what things exactly are we missing since we see inaccurately? Is this where ghosts fit into your ideas?

Aug 12Edited: Aug 14

Hi, Yes ghosts are a good idea, they certainly are seen as supernatural when they are anything but. It was 1966 and my two sons were fast asleep in bed, which was in the back of the house. My wife and I were in our bedroom at the front. We were just about to retire and turn off the light when we heard our children get out of bed. We heard them cross the landing, making their way to our room. My wife and I in playful mood covered our heads with the sheet and waited. The children came into our room and stood by the side of the bed. There was no mistaking they were my children, the attempt to suppress their giggling was unmistakable. Uncovering our faces, we both said 'boo'. It was goosebump time. there was no one there. After checking I found my children were still fast asleep and not a hair of their head had moved. When discussing the incident with friends, all brought in the supernatural to explain what had happened and I began to realise how easy it is to see things in the wrong light and also how it stopped us from thinking. My thoughts didn't turn that way; using logic I decided because they were my children and not some kind of strange phenomenon caused by the spirit world, that it could have only come from the subconscious, but whose? The subconscious works 24/7 never stopping, so the source of the incident could have been any one of my sons or it could have been my wife or indeed myself. We shall probably never know the answer, but what I did learn from it was that the four of us were connected subconsciously. Expand on that and you have to ask - are we all connected? This is what got me interested in finding out about the side of life that eludes us because of the way that religion has played it. I am glad to say that science fact has helped on this journey and doors have kept on opening with every new discovery, like a jigsaw all the pieces began to fit together. You might bring up that my children were not ghosts so this doesn't count, but you would be wrong because you would not be seeing accurately. Energy is energy regardless of its source and the law of physics dictates this. Ghosts don't come from the dead, they come from the living. What if we could harness this energy? The mind boggles. Do you see now, how religion is stopping progress?

Best wishes

I see that you think define intervention is the reason behind the variety of life. That comes over has being decisive, what it is also saying is - stop thinking. Faith is not a reliable pathway to the truth and knowledge.

Could you please comment on Galileo and Pythagoras and make a case for our destiny without these free thinking men?


Greetings once again, @windar12q! The Galileo and Pythagoras discussion would be a great one to have (maybe at another time), but I was particularly interested in hearing how you thought that religion is stifling progress in the area you outlined. Thanks!

New Posts
  • Hello everyone! Since our other discussion thread was getting rather cumbersome (I estimate we would have to click through at least 15 "load more replies" buttons before finding the end) I wanted to start a new post. This topic is partly inspired by our previous discussion on slavery, and I think it is fundamental to any of our beliefs: what makes us, as humans, special and valuable? This could include discussions on any of the following, or other questions as they come up: - It has been said that we are "star stuff", and the Bible says we are made in God's image. What do you believe we are made of? - Why are we different than animals? - What is "consciousness"? - Where does our value as humans come from? - How do our beliefs about these questions impact our lives? I look forward to hearing your views! There is something I think God has put on my heart to say. He loves you before you love Him. Wow, that's amazing.
  • Greetings, all! Recently, a new update was released for our forum here which allows me to create "badges" and award them to specific commentators. You may have already noticed some of them on your user profile! Anyway, feel free to suggest ideas for new badges (or changes to current ones) on this thread! Thanks!

 Copyright © 2016-2019 CE-DEBATE, All Rights Reserved

This site was designed with the
website builder. Create your website today.
Start Now